The Gate

Are you with me here?.... Does this make sense??

If not lets clear this up before we move on....

Yes it makes sense we can move on.

Okay So Who Is " I " ?

Does it require an ' I " to wake up, get out of bed, and go about your chores throughout your day??

Okay So Who Is " I " ?

Does it require an ' I " to wake up, get out of bed, and go about your chores throughout your day??

I always have a feeling that "I" is in the background of everything.

Ali, how much do you believe that feeling ?
What level of credibility are you ascribing to that feeling ?
Why do you believe a feeling more than your inability, to find an actual self ?

Ali, how much do you believe that feeling ?

A lot.

What level of credibility are you ascribing to that feeling ?

I know that the body can go in "automatic mode," but I feel it can also not be in automatic mode, and it is "I" that is controlling it. It is "I" that is trying to find out if it doesn't exist.

Why do you believe a feeling more than your inability, to find an actual self ?

It is one observer/controller, it can't look back at itself I suppose :S

i feel...it is "I" that is controlling it. It is "I" that is trying to find out if it doesn't exist

yes, you have a feeling of control, but it's just a feeling. If you look closely at it, you will see that there are certain sensations and certain thoughts that feed off each other until thought claims ownership. Just because thought claims it doesn't mean it is true.
When thought claims ownership, it also claims identity. Thought convinces itself that it is real and that it owns a body that it can control. Look, I can lift my foot. That must mean it's MY foot. Part of ME, the person, Ali.
Then it adds to the story of Ali by saying "if eyes can't see them selves, then an I can't find I".
But Mind CAN see itself working. Amazing thing, the human brain, the organ of thought.
Now, we are not saying that I doesn't exist. It does Exist.
It exists as a concept. A thought story.
Look for yourself. Write out a list of Characteristics possessed by Ali.
Actually do it, and i'll show you something.

Write out a list of Characteristics possessed by Ali.

Wimpy
Nice
Intelligent
Antisocial
5'11 Height
Black hair
Brown eyes

a list of Characteristics possessed by Ali
Wimpy
Nice
Intelligent
Antisocial
5'11 Height
Black hair
Brown eyes

Is there anything else that makes up Ali ?
Is there anything on the list that, if changed, would mean Ali wasn't Ali any more ?
Put a label next to each thing in the list.
Label each one either "reality" or "story". Which category does each one belong to ?

Is there anything else that makes up Ali ?

Yes.

Is there anything on the list that, if changed, would mean Ali wasn't Ali any more ?

No, they can change but I will still be this specific person.

Label each one either "reality" or "story". Which category does each one belong to ?

Story
Wimpy
Nice
Intelligent
Antisocial

Reality
5'11 Height
Black hair
Brown eyes

They might all be reality actually.. I don't know.

Hey noobstrom...

Story
Wimpy
Nice
Intelligent
Antisocial

These are opinions and beliefs... Again only thoughts, Not REAL.

vinceschubert wrote:Is there anything else that makes up Ali ?
Yes.

What else makes up Ali ?

they can change but I will still be this specific person.

Yes, even the physical ones will change, the hair will go grey or disappear, the height will decrease as you get really old etc.
But, you say you will still be this specific person. WHAT person ? You insist that there is an Ali in there somewhere without any evidence. You ignore the evidence that shows Ali is nothing more than a thought form. You even recognise that those 'story' characteristics are just your opinion.
Is it that you are Afraid to See Reality ? (watch the first thoughts that arise)

vinceschubert wrote:Is there anything else that makes up Ali ?
Yes.

What else makes up Ali ?

A lot of things.. likes/dislikes, desires, emotions.

they can change but I will still be this specific person.

Yes, even the physical ones will change, the hair will go grey or disappear, the height will decrease as you get really old etc.
But, you say you will still be this specific person. WHAT person ? You insist that there is an Ali in there somewhere without any evidence. You ignore the evidence that shows Ali is nothing more than a thought form. You even recognise that those 'story' characteristics are just your opinion.
Is it that you are Afraid to See Reality ? (watch the first thoughts that arise)

Yes but I will still remain the same piece of awareness. It is the same body/mind that goes through a process of aging. Everyone has there own separate uniqueness.

No I don't know how to see reality. (first thoughts that arose)

I will still remain the same piece of awareness

Ali, expand on this.
What is awareness ?
What is a piece of awareness ?
How does self fit with awareness ?
Is this unchanging ?

I don't know how to see reality.

This probably deserves some investigation.
Everything that exists is reality. Your black hair and height are reality. The characteristics of "wimpy", "nice" are thoughts/opinions and as such the thought itself is reality and the emotional response to it is reality but the content of the thought is story. Not real, in the sense that you could have a different thought/opinion and it would be just as real. (not)
Hmm, gets confusing, doesn't it.
Let's try this one. You think of Santa Clause. The thought is real. The content is real but not related to anything Actual. (this is how i meant 'not real' above)
In the same way the content of the concept 'self' is real but not relating to anything actual. It just appears to, until investigation reveals it to have the same validity as a thought about Santa.