See the sought

[tia22]

Is there still a feeling that there is a self thinking, deciding, feeling?

Mmmm… there is a thought that says yes. There is nothing that disputes nor confirms that.

[tia22]

I don’t know how to say this. The mind and thoughts feel like “me”, but it seems that all along there has been a misconception about what a “me” is. There has been a sense of ownership to this to thoughts and feelings, but now it seems that “me” is just a label to this orientation.
I can’t find a me outside of my thoughts claiming a sense of me or claiming a feeling as mine. Again this all just feels like labels.
These at all just thoughts as well. Is there anything here that communicate without drawing from thoughts?

[Bluejay]

I don’t know how to say this. The mind and thoughts feel like “me”, but it seems that all along there has been a misconception about what a “me” is. There has been a sense of ownership to this to thoughts and feelings, but now it seems that “me” is just a label to this orientation.
I can’t find a me outside of my thoughts claiming a sense of me or claiming a feeling as mine. Again this all just feels like labels.
These at all just thoughts as well. Is there anything here that communicate without drawing from thoughts?

Usually the first step is to intellectually see that there is nothing there. The next step is to focus on what feels like 'me' without going into more thinking about it.

When it is seen on a gut level that there is no self there, then there is a shift. This is not something that can be understood, but happens by grace you could say. All we can do is explore the feeling of me.

So let's focus on the feeling. When you say that the mind and thoughts feel like 'me', what exactly is it that feels like 'me'?

Questions that might help:
- Where in the body are the sensations that make up the 'me'?
- Do they spread, pulse, or do anything else?
- What does the 'me' look like?
- Does it have a voice?
- Can a 'me' be found in the sense of me?

Also, as you're exploring the above questions, do you want to share how precisely you do the inquiry? Just write down a play-by-play of what you do as you explore.

Cheers :)

[tia22]

Questions that might help:
- Where in the body are the sensations that make up the 'me'?
- Do they spread, pulse, or do anything else?
- What does the 'me' look like?
- Does it have a voice?
- Can a 'me' be found in the sense of me?

Also, as you're exploring the above questions, do you want to share how precisely you do the inquiry? Just write down a play-by-play of what you do as you explore.

When I first read this response, the mind immediately starting turning. Saying “I don’t know what he means when he says the “sense of me”. is he talking about my thoughts or is he talking about the fundamental “me”. There was a strong urge to ask clarifying questions about which “me” you’re talking about. Goes to show that the mind has been very busy conceptualizing non-dual teachings and ideas have been built around the teachings that there is a big self with a capital S (Being) and a small self (mind). It took me a minute to realize that is it just the mind that is confused. I will try to do this exercise as a true inquiry without letting the mind and concepts get involved. Just speak to what is experienced

Sitting quietly
Asking where in the body are the sensations that make up the me?
There is something that seems to be scanning through the body a “looking” of sorts. Paying attention to sensations. Noticing different sensations throughout the body. There is a tingling in the feet. Pressure where my bum and legs are resting on a chair. A kind of pressure in the chest. A tightness in the throat. Mild pressure in the left temple area of the face. I notice that these sensations do not feel like me, but feel like they are noticed by me. I can not pinpoint where the looking and noticing originate. It kind of feels like it just is where the attention goes? Maybe it IS the sense of attention? I dunno

Do they spread pulse or do anything else?
Trying to look at the looking so that I can describe it. It seems to move freely throughout the body? Because I can’t pinpoint it, I can’t really describe it sensationally.
I get the sense that it can not be felt or sensationalized. IT can not be experienced.

What does the me look like?
lol mmmm I have no idea.

Does it have a voice?
No

Can a me be found in the sense of me?
No

[tia22]

For question 1: upon further investigation- it does not feel like the awareness or what I am feeling as the sense of ‘me’ moves. To move would imply it leaves one place and goes somewhere else. It can be sensed everywhere. But not sensationally. It is just here.
It is not attention.
Wow 🤯

[tia22]

For question 1: upon further investigation- it does not feel like the awareness or what I am feeling as the sense of ‘me’ moves. To move would imply it leaves one place and goes somewhere else. It can be sensed everywhere. But not sensationally. It is just here.
It is not attention.
Wow 🤯

[Bluejay]

Sitting quietly
Asking where in the body are the sensations that make up the me?
There is something that seems to be scanning through the body a “looking” of sorts. Paying attention to sensations. Noticing different sensations throughout the body. There is a tingling in the feet. Pressure where my bum and legs are resting on a chair. A kind of pressure in the chest. A tightness in the throat. Mild pressure in the left temple area of the face. I notice that these sensations do not feel like me, but feel like they are noticed by me. I can not pinpoint where the looking and noticing originate. It kind of feels like it just is where the attention goes? Maybe it IS the sense of attention? I dunno

Do they spread pulse or do anything else?
Trying to look at the looking so that I can describe it. It seems to move freely throughout the body? Because I can’t pinpoint it, I can’t really describe it sensationally.
I get the sense that it can not be felt or sensationalized. IT can not be experienced.

Nicely done :)

What tells you that a 'me' is noticing something?

If it cannot be felt, then how do you know it is there?

Also something you can try is to take extra time with these questions, so you have time to relax into the inquiry. You don't have to find an answer. Instead, just relax into the looking, like watching the sunset, if that makes sense?

[tia22]

Also something you can try is to take extra time with these questions, so you have time to relax into the inquiry. You don't have to find an answer. Instead, just relax into the looking, like watching the sunset, if that makes sense?

That makes total sense. I will relax into the looking this evening and let you know how that goes….

[tia22]

I had a long quiet sit last night looking for the “feeling of me”. It is not in sensation anywhere in the body. It feels quite clear that there is no person here at all, anywhere… until thought chimes in. The movement of thought feels attached to a sense of a me. I intellectually understand that it is simply a thought that is telling me that “this feels like me”. That is just a thought. A rather convincing thought. I will continue looking at this and doing inquiry into this.
Do you have any specific inquiry activities you could recommend that may help me feel into this?

[Bluejay]

I had a long quiet sit last night looking for the “feeling of me”. It is not in sensation anywhere in the body. It feels quite clear that there is no person here at all, anywhere… until thought chimes in. The movement of thought feels attached to a sense of a me. I intellectually understand that it is simply a thought that is telling me that “this feels like me”. That is just a thought. A rather convincing thought. I will continue looking at this and doing inquiry into this.
Do you have any specific inquiry activities you could recommend that may help me feel into this?

Good that you are noticing all this. You are doing great already!

Instead of going: "It's just thought" go more into it.

At this stage the inquiry is about exploring what exactly it is that feels like a self. What are the thoughts or feelings referring to?

So when there's a thought that says "this feels like me" let it say more. Invite it in for a cup of tea and follow the breadcrumbs.

Hope that helps :)

[tia22]

It helps very much. I will look deeper.
Thank you, Henri
I will update with what I find (or what I don’t)

[tia22]

At this stage the inquiry is about exploring what exactly it is that feels like a self. What are the thoughts or feelings referring to?

I had off of work today and have been looking into the feeling of “me”. Ultimately, the me doesn’t seem to have any substance. I can not find anything that the thoughts or feelings are referring to or what they arise from. It all leads back to this space of what I can only describe as “aliveness”. A culmination of the senses creating an awareness of “experiencing”? Maybe? I really don’t have the vocabulary to be able to express what this is like. It feels familiar, but does not feel personal. Personal is a thought. This doesn’t need a thought, it just is.
I have touched into this space before, and it does feel profoundly quiet and neutral.

[tia22]

I’m trying not to conceptualize all of this as much as I have in the past. What would you recommend from here?

[Bluejay]

I had off of work today and have been looking into the feeling of “me”. Ultimately, the me doesn’t seem to have any substance. I can not find anything that the thoughts or feelings are referring to or what they arise from. It all leads back to this space of what I can only describe as “aliveness”. A culmination of the senses creating an awareness of “experiencing”? Maybe? I really don’t have the vocabulary to be able to express what this is like. It feels familiar, but does not feel personal. Personal is a thought. This doesn’t need a thought, it just is.
I have touched into this space before, and it does feel profoundly quiet and neutral.

Even if it doesn't feel personal, does this experiencing feel like a self, like 'you'?

Also, imagine that I'm a person that has never heard the concepts aliveness and experience. How would you describe them to me in actual experience? (sensations, sounds, images, smells, tastes)

[tia22]

Even if it doesn't feel personal, does this experiencing feel like a self, like 'you'?

Oof when I zoom out, it does feel like me having an experience of the impersonal. This process can be so disheartening.

Also, imagine that I'm a person that has never heard the concepts aliveness and experience. How would you describe them to me in actual experience? (sensations, sounds, images, smells, tastes)

Aliveness and experience explained in terms of direct experience?
I’m not sure. I wouldn’t know how to explain those sensations without using other descriptive words that are also not it. I wouldn’t be able to describe it. I’m sorry