Approaching Awakening

[Bluejay]

I think so. Stay in place between thoughts as much as I can? I'm not sure I know how to stay here without contemplating what 'here' is.

This is where pointers break down. Remember, you don't have to stop thoughts, just stay in the aliveness/source/presence that permeates and is everything.

Occasionally you can use a question like What am I? to help you feel into this.

Does that make sense? :)

I can rest in the quiet space for a while when I'm sitting still but I'm not sure how to do this during the day between experiences.

During the day can be challenging. You could try and find something that works there. For example, you could put your attention in the aliveness in the body. Some call it presence. It's not really a thing, but we can use the term.

This would be one way to just be mindful during the day. And then you could do mini inquiry sessions where you ask Who am I or whatever question feels most potent.

Even one minute or two can make a big difference. Does this resonate?

[Kaki]

Yes. Thanks so much. Today is a very quiet day so I will make this my priority. :)

[Bluejay]

Sounds good! And let me know if something feels off even a little bit. Let your intuition lead the way :)

[Kaki]

Update:

It's weird looking for the source of everything when I don't know what it is. I find myself giving different labels to this (aliveness/presence) in order to give me something to point to so I can rest there. I find myself inquiring "What is this?” a lot.

Feeling the bodily senses helps me settle into a sense of ‘aliveness’. What does it feel like to be me? This I can do quite often during the day for short amounts of time, until I'm drawn away into some thought. When I sit quietly, I focus more on the quiet space in my mind and try to rest there. Sometimes I play with merging that feeling with the sense of bodily presence to see if it is the same thing.

[Bluejay]

It's weird looking for the source of everything when I don't know what it is. I find myself giving different labels to this (aliveness/presence) in order to give me something to point to so I can rest there. I find myself inquiring "What is this?” a lot.

Feeling the bodily senses helps me settle into a sense of ‘aliveness’. What does it feel like to be me? This I can do quite often during the day for short amounts of time, until I'm drawn away into some thought. When I sit quietly, I focus more on the quiet space in my mind and try to rest there. Sometimes I play with merging that feeling with the sense of bodily presence to see if it is the same thing.

All sounds great. Just keep going and allowing this to unfold naturally. 👍

While you're exploring that, I'm going to start giving you some pointers to explore.

Here's one on memory:

Memory Exercise

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

During this exercise. please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say. Focus on direct experience.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference known exactly?

[Kaki]

What is memory exactly?

A memory is a reflective thought or thoughts about an experience that is perceived to have happened in the past.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

A memory is made of words and/or pictures that seem to appear in the mind.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Memory thoughts can appear anytime but often appears when triggered by another thought or a sensation in the body.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

There is no difference, other than a ‘memory’ thought seems to have an additional thought that says, "This happened in the past.”.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

There is nothing in a memory thought that definitively refers to something in the past. It is known by the additional thought(s) that say “This happened in the past.”

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Words and/or pictures that seem to occur in the mind.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Anytime.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

Similar to the ‘memory’ thought, the only difference seems to be an additional thought says ‘this is in the future’ or ‘this is a fantasy’, etc.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

There is nothing, other than the extra thought referring to the future, that indicates the thought content will happen in the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

The only difference is the thought that says ‘this has happened in the past’ or ‘this will happen in the future’.

If there is difference and how is that difference known exactly?

No difference.

[Bluejay]

A memory is made of words and/or pictures that seem to appear in the mind.

What is a mind in direct experience?

Here's a meditation you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYnKMggFxfE

[Kaki]

What is a mind in direct experience?

Ooh, that's a good one! I'll watch the video.

[Bluejay]

Let me know how it goes :)

[Kaki]

I think it's going okay but it is not consistent. There's a mixture of feelings of frustration and sadness sometimes and a relaxing of some ideas and ways of being.

I find myself not wanting to spend much time with my close friends. On the other hand, my relationship with my daughter seems better and easier.

I'm finding it difficult to ‘feel into’ some ethereal place/space where everything supposedly comes from but I don't know what/where it is. Sometimes I feel like I'm manufacturing a space where I can put my attention. This doesn't feel right to me. It feels forced.

I don't know what the 'mind' is. Maybe it's the place where everything comes from. Thoughts seem to appear in my head/brain. I used the word ‘mind’ to refer to that area. I've listened to that video you recommended before. I really like Todd's videos.

Right now I'm sitting with the question, ‘If there's no knower or doer in life, what is there? What am I? I'm able to just rest here for a while.

I really feel okay not being in control, not knowing anything for sure. This feels light and easy. I've had plenty of years trying to manage my life and now I'm enjoying just going with the flow. I'm feeling some relaxation around certain things that I used to feel strongly about.

I hope you can get something out of these random thoughts.

[Bluejay]

I think it's going okay but it is not consistent. There's a mixture of feelings of frustration and sadness sometimes and a relaxing of some ideas and ways of being.

Are you sitting with these feelings as fully as you can?

I find myself not wanting to spend much time with my close friends. On the other hand, my relationship with my daughter seems better and easier.

This seems normal to me. Do you find this alarming?

I don't know what the 'mind' is. Maybe it's the place where everything comes from. Thoughts seem to appear in my head/brain. I used the word ‘mind’ to refer to that area. I've listened to that video you recommended before. I really like Todd's videos.

Understood, I was checking if you thought the mind was an actual thing.

Right now I'm sitting with the question, ‘If there's no knower or doer in life, what is there? What am I? I'm able to just rest here for a while.

I really feel okay not being in control, not knowing anything for sure. This feels light and easy. I've had plenty of years trying to manage my life and now I'm enjoying just going with the flow. I'm feeling some relaxation around certain things that I used to feel strongly about.

I hope you can get something out of these random thoughts.

This sounds good to me. Some people sit with this kind of self-inquiry questions for years, going through frustration, boredom, exhaustion, and so on.

If you want, you can continue with this style of inquiry. We can also shift to a more divide and conquer strategy which is more akin to vipassana where the tangled strands of the 'self' are separated into the senses.

So let me ask you: What are you most interested in exploring now? Is there something coming up?

[Kaki]

Are you sitting with these feelings as fully as you can?

No. Just as you said, frustration and boredom set in so I stop.

I had an insight today, however. Even with all the work around the controller and the doer, which I clearly see from the exercises, I may have been thinking of them as aspects of my sense of self, like parts of my personality, forgetting that the entire sense of self is an illusion made up of thoughts also.

This sounds good to me. Some people sit with this kind of self-inquiry questions for years, going through frustration, boredom, exhaustion, and so on.

If you want, you can continue with this style of inquiry. We can also shift to a more divide and conquer strategy which is more akin to vipassana where the tangled strands of the 'self' are separated into the senses.

So let me ask you: What are you most interested in exploring now? Is there something coming up?

I want to inquire more about this idea of my entire sense of self being a thought that has other thoughts. It's all the same stuff so, What is it? Where does it come from?

But the divide and conquer strategy sounds interesting too. Can I do both?

[Bluejay]

No. Just as you said, frustration and boredom set in so I stop.

Understood. If you are able, it's a good opportunity to notice where the sensations are in your body and fully feel them. Let go of even the labels frustration and boredom.

If it's too uncomfortable to dive into the center of the sensation, you can approach from the sides, if that makes sense. Usually these feelings are pulsing/moving, so you would go to the least intense part and start there.

Let me know if you have any questions on this.

I had an insight today, however. Even with all the work around the controller and the doer, which I clearly see from the exercises, I may have been thinking of them as aspects of my sense of self, like parts of my personality, forgetting that the entire sense of self is an illusion made up of thoughts also.

That's a great insight. It's good to celebrate these observations. It can sometimes feel like we're not making progress, because we're so focused on the end goal.

But the divide and conquer strategy sounds interesting too. Can I do both?

We can try both and see what happens.

Are you familiar with Vipassana noting technique? I don't remember if I've gone through it with you.

I want to inquire more about this idea of my entire sense of self being a thought that has other thoughts. It's all the same stuff so, What is it? Where does it come from?

Divide and conquer would start with this:

Does the sense of self have thoughts?

When you look at a thought appearing, do they come out of a self?

[Kaki]

Are you familiar with Vipassana noting technique? I don't remember if I've gone through it with you.

I don't think we've gone over it but I'm familiar with it from my Vipassana days.

[Bluejay]

It comes down to separate the strands that when entangled create the feeling of self.

We may have touched on it briefly after the sense of self exercise where we looked at separating the senses.

So here's what you can do during the day:

When you notice a feeling like you're doing something, whether that be deciding, thinking, making plans, stop for a moment and notice how you know that *you* are doing something.

Separate the senses and observe how the illusion forms. The simplest vipassana is enough here, which would be see-hear-feel, or just image-talk-feel.

If you don't catch yourself in the moment, that's okay, you can do this retroactively, too.

Or if neither work, do something that evokes the sense of self. Let's say it's getting up and walking around the house. Notice if you're moving your legs.

If it's planning, start planning while doing vipassana and see if you can catch the self forming.

Let me know if this makes sense :)