Liberation from self

[bretharte]

Hi, Warissem,

In order to believe thoughts, there has to be someone outside of thoughts, who has volition and the ability to believe them or not. What identifies with thoughts (is affected) and believes them?

What identifies with thoughts and believes them is the self, which is just thoughts. But can a thought believe another thought? And the self which believes the thoughts and is affected by the thoughts causes sensations in the body.

How is believing different from thoughts just appearing and disappearing?

I don't know how it is that thoughts are believed. If there is no belief in thoughts, then they do just appear and disappear. But why are certain thoughts believed, what is that, and other thoughts aren't of any concern. It appears that negative and positive thoughts about the self are thoughts that are believed and can affect subsequent thoughts and the body. This is a very difficult question and I'm afraid I don't have an answer. This needs more attention.
Thank you,
Francesca

[warissem]

Hi Francesca

What identifies with thoughts and believes them is the self, which is just thoughts. But can a thought believe another thought? And the self which believes the thoughts and is affected by the thoughts causes sensations in the body.

You see, this answer is not given through direct experience : look at direct experience and see the answer.

Is there someone outside of thoughts who has the ability to believe thoughts? Look at direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations).

Is there a you, an I, identifying with thoughts ?

Does a belief in thoughts exist outside of thoughts?

Is there a believer, outside of thoughts?

Is there someone who gets angry outside of thoughts?

Best for you

Warissem

[bretharte]

Hi, Warissem,
I'm sorry but my pet rabbit has been sick today and I've had to take care of him. He seems to be better tonight so I'm very relieved. Anyway, I will do the exercises and answer the questions tomorrow. I hope that is okay with you. Have a good day.
Thank you,
Francesca

[warissem]

Hi Francesca

Take your time for it. You will be invited soon to LU facebook groups.

Warissem

[bretharte]

Hi, Warissem,
Thank you for your understanding.

How is believing different from thoughts just appearing and disappearing?

I wanted to go back to this question. What seems to happen in direct experience when a negative thought is "believed" is that a subsequent thought comes along and is resisting the first thought. This resistance causes a contraction in the body and there then a thought that is resisting the body contraction. When thoughts just appear and disappear, there is no thought that resists the prior thought. That is what is experienced. Please let me know how you respond to this. Is there something that is not being seen?

Is there someone outside of thoughts who has the ability to believe thoughts? Look at direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching or sensations).

No, in direct experience, only thoughts react to (believe) other thoughts. There is no one who is believing outside of the thoughts themselves.

Is there a you, an I, identifying with thoughts ?

Looking at direct experience, there is no me identifying with thoughts. Only thoughts.

Does a belief in thoughts exist outside of thoughts?

No.

Is there a believer, outside of thoughts?

Again, no. No believer, only thoughts of a believer.

Is there someone who gets angry outside of thoughts?

No. Sometimes there is a sensation in the body that gets identified as anger, but only because a thought labels the sensation as anger. Without the thought "anger" there is only a sensation.
Thank you again for all your help.
Francesca

[warissem]

Good morning

You can clarify things on LU facebook groups and you can open a thread on a forum called Unleashed when your name is blue.

Best to you

Warissem

[bretharte]

Hi, Warissem,
Thank you for all your time and attention and help. Will I be sent a link to the LU facebook groups? Where do I find the Unleashed forum and where do I look to see if my name has turned blue?
Thank you again,
Francesca

[warissem]

Good morning

Yes, you will be invited by admin. to facebook groups

Here is the unleashed forum to look deeper :viewforum.php?f=6

Warissem

[bretharte]

Hi, Warissem,
I just got a message from Nerina with all the details of how to join the various groups and forums. Thank you so much for all your help. It has been invaluable in showing me the truth. My heart goes out to you for what you do to help me and other people.
Francesca

[warissem]

Good morning

Your words are in my heart.

Warissem