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Re: Need help

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:12 pm
by vinceschubert
Good evening Ripper, i will get to respond to your posts tomorrow evening.
In the meantime consider this;
I was contemplating today the idea of conceptualization.
From the moment that you wake up until you are in deep sleep again, you conceptualize. You conceptualize then respond to whatever concepts that you have created.

vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:09 pm
by ripper91
im posting this as a reminder only in case you forgot, maybe you need notification im not sure how it works.

Re: Need help

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:36 pm
by vinceschubert
im posting this as a reminder only in case you forgot
Thanks.
So what happened as you considered that you conceptualize your whole waking time?
even when im laughing theres no any realasing of positive hormones, it doesnt feel anywhere close to like a genuine laugh feels.
Just keep doing it. It doesn't matter that the laugh is fake. As your stress levels drop you will start to feel the effects.
im pretty sure something is not going right with this recognition practice,
Is this thoughts saying this? Why would you believe any of your thoughts? They haven't been your friend in the past.
what kind of experiences?
An experience that you haven't had yet. Something new. Keep it as a mystery. Be open to anything.
This is some kind of Law of Attraction idea?
Absolutely not!
The Law of Attraction is bullshit. ..but being relaxed and open to possibilities can seem like that. A greater perspective opens many possibilities that aren't there when you are suffering.
I dont get what you mean by fetter 8,
https://www.simplytheseen.com/8th-fetter.html
it would be pretending couse i know it still be there.
Of course. Absolute honesty is critical.
Theres always only percieving, i either know that im experiencing impulses in my brain or i believe im experiencing actual objects.
Yes, you can believe that you are experiencing an actual object. You just don't know what the actual object is. You only know your interpretation of it. This happens in your brain.
Im thinking if i should focus of spotting if i believe the stories instead of celebrating noticicng of getting lost,
Not "instead of". Do both. If you react to a story, then you believe it. You (probably) believe every story that your mind creates.
Recognitions dont happen much lately, im getting tired on being on constant alert
Oh wow. i didn't mean for you to be constantly on watch. Be relaxed and do your normal things. Noticing will happen (or not) Don't DO anything. (the idea that you can is only an idea anyway) Things happen. That's all.
even if its not gonna couse awakening.
Nothing will cause awakening. It happens because a million conditions align. (that's a good story) It isn't a new thing. It's always already there. We just need to uncover it.
onceptualization. It seems the root of it is the illusion of good and bad duality,
There's nothing wrong with conceptualization. That is if it is recognize as that. It's when we take a concept and call it real that we have suffering.
Partly what we are on about here is to recognize when that happens.

with love

vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:29 pm
by ripper91
So what happened as you considered that you conceptualize your whole waking time?
Not much, noticing that theres colors sounds,feelings and mind dresses everything up in concepts, i saw that before, but its not happening naturally, its on periods when im focusing on my excercises/practices.
Just keep doing it. It doesn't matter that the laugh is fake. As your stress levels drop you will start to feel the effects.
Ok, im still doing it, but when im trying to be more relaxed about it without "forcing" it it happens very rarely, yesterday i had a bad day and it happenned only maybe 2-3 times, im not noticing dropping of stress levels from that.
Is this thoughts saying this? Why would you believe any of your thoughts? They haven't been your friend in the past.
I cant help thoughts that this is not working, but as i said i wont stop this time.
The Law of Attraction is bullshit. ..but being relaxed and open to possibilities can seem like that. A greater perspective opens many possibilities that aren't there when you are suffering.
Its kind of in same bucket for me Law of atrraction, NLP/Visualisations, thats one of the reasons this laughing thing bothers me a bit, not seeing the results and knowing that this is kind of "programming".
Oh wow. i didn't mean for you to be constantly on watch. Be relaxed and do your normal things. Noticing will happen (or not) Don't DO anything. (the idea that you can is only an idea anyway) Things happen. That's all.
Im not doing normal things, my life is not composed of normal activities people doing anyway, but now im in full liberation mission, when im "relaxing away" from it no recognitions, no stillness/silence, no no-doership is noticed or vaery rarely i should say.
Yes, you can believe that you are experiencing an actual object. You just don't know what the actual object is. You only know your interpretation of it. This happens in your brain.
Thats what i said basically, so i still dont understand what you mean by this difference of experiencing this.
Nothing will cause awakening. It happens because a million conditions align. (that's a good story) It isn't a new thing. It's always already there. We just need to uncover it.
I understand but some conditions are more important than others i believe, and my thought process was that other practices than laughing may be more beneficial.
There's nothing wrong with conceptualization. That is if it is recognize as that. It's when we take a concept and call it real that we have suffering.
Partly what we are on about here is to recognize when that happens.
Yeah ok, im gwtting frustrated couse iv seen progress in the beginning and now i dont see any for quite long time, i know its just a stories but thats what happening, frustration arises anyway and its not helping abviously.

I started fasting, its my 4th day, you didnt comment on it, kundalini energy increased or its more obvious rather im not sure, im not sure how will it go, i want to do long period, maybe 30 days if its possible, they say its getting easier after first few days, today is better than yesterday, i had bad day yesterday, and it showed my im not even close to be able to not resist, it was back and forth between seeing what mind is doing and believeing the stories, but negative emotions didnt release at all even when i was observing it as pure sensations and knowing the process of cousing it.

Re: Need help

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:21 pm
by vinceschubert
Good afternoon Ripper,
So what happened as you considered that you conceptualize your whole waking time?
Not much, noticing that there are colors sounds, feelings and the mind dresses everything up in concepts, i saw that before, but it's not happening naturally, it's on periods when im focusing on my exercises/practices.
Ok, here is something that applies to many areas in this investigation. That is that once something is seen, it no longer needs to be sought out to see it again. If it needs to be revisited then it hasn't been seen clearly the first time.
If we examine this a little deeper, we need to consider what "seen" actually is.
In this case it is firstly recognizing something as actual, then secondly appreciating what this means. What the ramifications of it are, then thirdly responding to it differently.
For example; when we recognize that there is no such thing as an independent, separate self running the show, it means that we give up the delusion that we have control, make choices and decisions and live with the illusion that it appears one way but is actually another.
If we still behave as if we can control the outcome of anything, then we haven't properly integrated that seeing.
In this case it is crazy to keep looking for new and different ways to achieve the same thing.
We need to go back and investigate more fully the thing that we saw but didn't find a new way of being from.
Ok, im still doing it, but when im trying to be more relaxed about it without "forcing" it it happens very rarely, yesterday i had a bad day and it happened only maybe 2-3 times, im not noticing dropping of stress levels from that.
While you focus on the outcome you are unable to focus on NOW.
This happens NOW. Not in the future.
You say that things don't happen when you are relaxed, but a forced outcome is of no value. It misses the point.
We are learning how to be relaxed and flow with what life offers, not push the river.
Those 2 -3 times that it did happen are worth 100 times more than any manipulated outcomes.
I cant help thoughts that this is not working, but as i said i wont stop this time.
This is really good. ..and when those thoughts arrive, if you've appreciated that they are just habitual mind creations, then you will give them no credibility and will dismiss them as a waste of space.
and knowing that this is kind of "programming".
"programming' is right. Just as you have been programmed to think the way that you did. ..but "programming" has a dark implication. i prefer to refer to is as conditioning.
People program. Conditions happen.
Im not doing normal things, my life is not composed of normal activities people doing anyway, but now im in full liberation mission, when im "relaxing away" from it no recognitions, no stillness/silence, no no-doership is noticed or vaery rarely i should say.
i get this. i was pretty obsessive in my seeking, but you're not practising to join a monastery or retreat to a cave in some mountain. You are re-conditioning to live in an insane world in a sane way.
i still dont understand what you mean by this difference of experiencing this.
Do you grok that what you experience is a result of responding to your interpretation of what you think is there?
my thought process was that other practices than laughing may be more beneficial.
Then do them as well as the laughing and see how beneficial that they are. (just write about them here)
frustration arises anyway and its not helping abviously.
Are you laughing when you recognize the stories that bring on the frustration?
Maybe instead of looking for a replacement to the laughing, we need to look more closely at how you are doing it. What do you think?
I started fasting, its my 4th day, you didnt comment on it,
Yes. i didn't comment as i don't see how it fits with what we are doing.
i do a 3 or 4 day fast about once a month, but not for 'spiritual' reasons.
Your intensity is both admirable and frightening.
i worry that your stress levels will cloud your thinking. When emotions lead we often stumble into suffering.

with love & compassion

vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:13 am
by ripper91
Sense of "Me" is gone, separation is gone, ideas to get somhwhere, achive something, wishing to be different are all gone.
All is left is aware-ing.

Re: Need help

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:53 pm
by vinceschubert
Wow! what happened?

vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:53 pm
by ripper91
I was seeking like a psychopath:) But all of a sudden it hits me that its all running circeles in the mind, so all the nonsense of the mind was dropped hahahahah.

Re: Need help

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:03 pm
by vinceschubert
Good evening Ripper, how's it going?

vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:27 pm
by ripper91
I dont even know what to say.

Re: Need help

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:47 pm
by vinceschubert
Good evening Ripper.
Good evening Ripper, how's it going?
I dont even know what to say.
Well that's a good sign.
Let’s run through these questions and see if there’s anywhere that needs further investigation.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


vince

Re: Need help

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:50 pm
by ripper91
Good evening
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No, theres not, all there was is just stories and believe that they represent actual "me".
2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.
Came from parents and society, it was programmed into body/mind "unit".
Theres no more judgement couse everything happens without anybody cousing anything, no more expectations that something should be different than it is, no more getting sucked into stories couse reality doesnt care about them, seeing own point of view the same as other point of views, its as important as any other and its a product of conditioning and conceptualizing.
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Feels liberating, light, free, no more tension, no more desperation, no more expectations, acceptance and nonattachment.
4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?
I realized that freedom lays beyond "mind", that all this seeking are "stories" and im chasing just concepts/thoughts.
There was strong willingness to surrender whatever it needs to be surrendered for "Freedom" and determination to not give up no matter what which i think was deciding factor.
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.
Theres nobody to to decide anything, decisions happen automatically, conditioning is responding to whatever is arising at present moment(moment is just a concept btw), example is writing this post, as a response to sense of vision and evaluating whatever is precieved, conceptualizing data and deciding what proper response is, which happens by itself.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
This question doesnt make sense, if i have to explain illusiuon of responsibility somehow it would be that reality is responsible for reality.

Re: Need help

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:10 pm
by ripper91
Hey Vince
Seems like answers are approved, i got no questions for now, just wanted to Thank You for your help.

Re: Need help

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:26 pm
by vinceschubert
Hey Ripper.
Seems like answers are approved, i got no questions for now, just wanted to Thank You for your help.
Good stuff.
Now you need to keep this stuff active so that you don't go back to sleep.
You will be invited to the Unleashed facebook group where you can talk with people in similar situations to you.
Also I host a zoom meetup once every two weeks that specializes in just gated (or nearly gated) peeps. Send me your email address (on PM above) and I will send you the log in details. The next one is (depending where in the world that you live) on Sunday.

with love

vince