mimi&me

[mimi8me]

Oops forget these 2 Qs...

Isn't it everything ALREADY freedom?

There isn't a feeling of freedom when the 'I' is identified with mind. But yes, that's techically correct.

Who can see and know this?

The illusory self believed it to be true.


Thanks.

[Luchana]

Hi Leona,

I will jump on your last reply.

There isn't a feeling of freedom when the 'I' is identified with mind. But yes, that's techically correct.

Is there a mind at experience?
Who or what can identified with mind if mind does not exist?

The illusory self believed it to be true.

WHERE is this illusory self?
Look around the room.
Where is it hiding?

Much love,
Luchana

[mimi8me]

Hi Luchana,

Is there a mind at experience?

No.

Who or what can identified with mind if mind does not exist?

Thoughts exist. Mind is merely a concept to represent the process of thinking.
At the moment, here, there is no identification with mind, and thoughts are seen through as illusory.

WHERE is this illusory self?
Look around the room.
Where is it hiding?

It's just another concept.


Love
Leona

[Luchana]

Hi Leona,

you did a very good looking.

Let's go back to this question again.
Look very carefully

IS there control over thoughts?
Was there ever?


Much love,
Luchana

[mimi8me]

Hi Luchana,

IS there control over thoughts?

No, there is no control over thoughts.
When a story creates uncomfortable feelings in the body, these stories are seen through and there is no engaging with them so they fall away naturally without control.

Was there ever?

Nope ; )


See you soon and sending love...
Leona

[mimi8me]

Ps...
the inner conflict and doubt seems to have resolved and there is a free & open, clean happiness : )

[Luchana]

Hi Leona,

you did a very good looking.

the inner conflict and doubt seems to have resolved and there is a free & open, clean happiness : )

Lovely :-)
And if the doubt seems to appear again this doesn't mean that "me" has back.


After our meeting yestarday.

Are there any doubts?

Are you ready for the final questions?


Much love,
Luchana

[mimi8me]

Hi Luchana,

And if the doubt seems to appear again this doesn't mean that "me" has back

Yes, I feel this is true now : )

Are there any doubts?

Nope. They may show up again but there is an openness to them as they are seen as no longer really about 'me'!

Are you ready for the final questions?

Yes ; )


Thank you and much love,
Leona x

[Luchana]

Hi Leona,

great :-)

Here are the questions. Please express it as fully as you see it now ans give examples where are needed.
Take your time.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Have fun :-)

Much love,
Luchana

[mimi8me]

Hi Luchana,
Here are my answers.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, a separate self, Leona, cannot be found here. When the eyes are closed, there is simply space, tranparency, openness. There is no 'me' here and it seems there never was.

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self was a convincing combination of thoughts, feeling, sensations and memories that were believed to be 'me' without a need for investigation. Thoughts commenting on thoughts, memories, behavioural patterns, personality traits and preferences, conditioning etc. were all unquestioningly accepted and deeply identified with. The story of Leona had not been seen through, even when the no-self was a constant experience and fully accepted.
Gradually, through the LU process, thoughts were examined and it was seen that they simply occurred with no intrinsic ability to do anything other than appear and disappear into nothing and, with their appearance, identification with them began to be recognised. It was also seen how running commentaries, labelling and stories appear that often trigger emotions and sensations in the body which were then labelled as 'unpleasant' and so it went on.
Thoughts continue to happen but the stories are no longer believed. The deep saddness and anxiety that was once felt, has lifted. Feelings still arise but now, when the story or root is identified, they disolve.
My past also feels remote and less concrete now because there is no indentification with it - It's a story that doesn't particularly feel 'mine' anymore, at least not in the way it used to.
Experience still happens in much the same way as before, it's just that there isn't anyone here to experience it. Life simply unfolds, nothing is hidden and yet it is all still one big mystery. Nothing is really known or felt to be permanent. There is no end point or resolution and this freedom is enjoyed by no one ; )

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

There's ease, freedom and flow in life now. There's also a seeing that this life is not mine : ) This body is not mine. There's more joy because imagined boundaries have lifted. Inner and the outer are one and there is just a flowing freely with environment/nature. Interactions with others are freer, easier, less defended because there's no need to uphold or protect an identity here. And if this feeling of threat happens, it is seen through now.
Also, beliefs and concepts have somehow disapeared and opinions about 'things' are just, well, more open-ended, flow-y and half-hearted as I don't know much about anything anymore and I like it that way because it doesn't matter, being 'right' doesn't matter. Attachments have also dropped away and there is no need to be or do anything within conditioned/societal expectations.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Hmmm, difficult to say. I had seen the truth of no-self spontaneously several years ago and repeatedly therafter, but there was still a strong identification with thoughts. This began to collapse with Luchana's help. I would deeply investigate this feeling/sensation of Leona until every 'Leona-ish' feeling dissolved and nothing remained but a delightful, light openness. At the time it sometimes felt like I was clearing away sludge. I knew I was close because I got unreasonably frustrated at not being able to crack this most infuriating riddle! I felt backed up into a corner with no escape!!- do or die!! - makes me laugh now. And then, with investigation, the deep identification with thoughts was gradually seen through.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

The no-self is agendaless so decisions, intention, free will, choice and control appear to happen, but to no one.
Decisions and choice continue, but no one here is choosing anything. The mind has already 'decided' or 'chosen' something a fraction of a second before a conscious decision has been reached by the personality, with it's wonderful array of tastes and preferences. This 'Leona' character prefers tea over coffee and will almost NEVER turn down a piece of licorice despite an apparent inner struggle of conflicting thoughts weighing up the multifarious options. Intension, control and free will are also illusory because every experience is accepted by no one.
I had a wonderful ahha moment when walking in nature recently. I stopped to appreciate a beautiful view, experiencing the joy of the moment. But I immediately asked myself, "WHO has actually chosen to stop here and enjoy this view?", "No one!" was my response and I saw through everything; how the mind plays games by commenting on comments and labelling experience to fit a false concept of self. It's an impressive and convinceing trap.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

There's no one here that is responsible for anything. Leona may appear to be following through on her responsibilities eg. needed repairs to her house are currently happening so things get done and life continues, but it just stuff happening like it always has without a doer.

6) Anything to add?

This process here has been quite brutal; a dissolution of the known rather than the realisation of a shiney new paradigm. THANK YOU Luchana for acompaningy me through this roller coaster of a ride, and although much has fallen away, I have gained a new friend.

Leona x

[Luchana]

Hi Leona.

thank you for your replies.
So much joy reading!

Will share them with the other guides and they may or may not have some questions for you. I wll come back here soon.



Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Leona,

thank you for your replies.

the other guides have no other questions for you which means that you crashed the Gateless Gate so to speak. But as you already know - there is no one to crash the gate, there is no gate even :-)
Keep an eye for a private message from the admin. Your name will turns into blue at some point.

There are lot of possibilities to continue investigation in the forum and also in FB, where is an aftercare group - I will waiting you there.

It has been such a pleasure and joy to accompany you here. Thank you for the trust, for your openness and willingness to LOOK.

And as you know this is not the end.
Isn't it amazing?

Much love
Luchana