Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
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https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=7749
Nowhere, I’ve come full circle. For there to be inquiry, there needs to be a person doing it. There is no person doing it. There is only an imaginary person imagining that he’s doing it.So where is your inquiry taking you now?
True, but where does the desire to inquire come from? In my experience that desire originates from the person, and we know that person isn’t real, so therefore no need to act on the desire. Once that desire is satisfied, the person will want something else, better to just accept.For there to be inquiry there doesn't need to be a person doing it!
...but where does the desire to inquire come from? In my experience that desire originates from the person, and we know that person isn’t real, so therefore no need to act on the desire.
I read this, and understood the well meaning, and the intent to encourage, but cannot see why not giving up would be preferred over giving up. Let’s for a moment say that not giving up was better, how would I do it? What could I do?1. Don't give up! - You have have a good attitude and have diligently put a lot of effort in so far (as I have too). So let's not come up empty handed.
I reread it. Your posts, as you suggested, was very interesting, valuable and insightful. As for mine, I find it very difficult to identify with the person who wrote those words.2. Read our conversation through slowly from the beginning. You are likely to find it is a very interesting, valuable, and insightful. Take your time. Make your favourite brew and get comfy....
I don’t know where I am at, but I know this is where I am, and I can’t see any problem with that. If what is wanted me to be some other way, it would have made me that way, instead it made me this way, and that’s okay too. I am content. For some to see, some must be blind.3. After that write in detail about where you are at and how you feel.
I reread it. Your posts, as you suggested, was very interesting, valuable and insightful. As for mine, I find it very difficult to identify with the person who wrote those words.
For some to see, some must be blind.
Is it possible to experience an imaginary person? If it is imaginary how can it be experienced (other than in thought?But this person, the imaginary one that is experienced now, knows there is nothing that can be done
I think you misunderstood, I have not been suffering. Well, no more than before, and almost certainly less, because I can see, if not in the moment, then in retrospect, that all suffering is self caused. Involuntary, but still self caused.I am sorry to learn that you have been sufferring...
Nothing comes to mind, just a realization. The realization that all of life is the same pattern repeating, over and over.Really?. Did something happen. Was there a change in how things are perceived, If so please tell me about it.
Observation. Not sure anything can be known to be true, but observation supports it. You can only say that some person is healthy, if some other person is not. You can only say that some person is rich, if some other person is not. That some person is happy, if some other person is not. If not, the words themselves lose their meaning. We certainly don’t talk about and point out people who are not human, because all people are human.For some to see, some must be blind.
Where does thgis come from? How is this known to be true?
No, it only believes it, sometimes. Most of the time it believes it’s in control, but upon following certain pointings, your pointings, it realizes and begins to believe that nothing can be done, it either happens or it doesn’t. Anything, but this is simply hubris.But this person, the imaginary one that is experienced now, knows there is nothing that can be done
It has to be, an imaginary person is being experienced. It’s certainly possible that the experience of imaging a person is also imaginary, but then certainly the imagining imagining that is also experienced. Exactly, it is being experienced in thought, that’s is where all imagination occurs, and thoughts are being experienced.Is it possible to experience an imaginary person? If it is imaginary how can it be experienced (other than in thought?
Not sure anything can be known to be true, but observation supports it. You can only say that some person is healthy, if some other person is not. You can only say that some person is rich, if some other person is not. That some person is happy, if some other person is not. If not, the words themselves lose their meaning. We certainly don’t talk about and point out people who are not human, because all people are human.
...all of life is the same pattern repeating, over and over.
What causes a car to be a car? That’s what it is, it was made that way. Why was it made that way? Someone or something wanted it to be that way, so it made it that way, the car had no say.What do you see causing that in you?
Well, are you Life expressing itself an Nessie?What causes me to be me. I can only assume that someone or something wanted me to be this way, and therefore made me this way.
Can I choose not to be me? If I can, I haven’t found the way.
Well, are you Life expressing itself an Nessie?
This was interesting. There can be a pretension to be someone else, a pretension to choose to be someone else, but no real someone else or choice to be someone else. Life would just be making Nessie pretend to be someone else.Well, have a look. Can you choose to be someone else?
Well, are you Life expressing itself an Nessie?
Close, but not quite. Life is expressing itself as Nessie, but I don’t identify with that life. I feel like life is pushing me around.
This consciousness, which is not experienced as being all of consciousness. All is life, all is consciousness, but no single part of life or consciousness, are all of life or all of consciousness.What is the 'you' that is either identifying with life or not?
If there is not identification with life, what is being identified with?
Is anything not life?
One thing, not knowing itself completely. I am life, and life is me, there is a touching point, this body, its brain, it’s consciousness, it’s thoughts. It is part of life and life is made up of it. However I cannot touch all of life.With eyes closed and sitting peacefully where do 'you' and 'life' begin and end?
Are there REALLY two things (you and life)?
Not two things, but like the toe is not the whole body, I don’t feel to be life as a whole. I am a part of it, but only I am a small part of it, separated from the rest of it by ideas.1. With eyes closed and sitting peacefully where do 'you' and 'life' begin and end?
Are there REALLY two things (you and life)?
2. With eyes open and sitting in nature (local park will do). Is the tree separate from the rest of life? (the grass, the sky, the rain, etc) or is the universe (life) 'treeing'?
3. Are you and the tree separate. Without it's O2 you die. Without your CO2 the tree dies?
4. Is separatiion real or imagined - a way we artificially divide up the world in order to conceptualise, to understand, to communicate?
This is intelectual.What is the 'you' that is either identifying with life or not?
If there is not identification with life, what is being identified with?
Is anything not life?
This consciousness, which is not experienced as being all of consciousness. All is life, all is consciousness, but no single part of life or consciousness, are all of life or all of consciousness.
One thing, not knowing itself completely. I am life, and life is me, there is a touching point, this body, its brain, it’s consciousness, it’s thoughts. It is part of life and life is made up of it. However I cannot touch all of life.
Not two things, but like the toe is not the whole body, I don’t feel to be life as a whole. I am a part of it, but only I am a small part of it, separated from the rest of it by ideas.
Separation is imagined, everything is artificially divided, but that is how the universe is doing it.