The truth doesn't need my belief to exist

[Jadzia]

Stay calm. ;-)

The pinpoint is me

What me?
Lets for the moment agree and assume that there is a focus point/pinpoint, but is this point a me?
What exactly is this me?

If I am in deep sleep (no dreams) I am not aware of anything. I'm not sure how I can look again if I am in deep sleep.
If I am in deep sleep I am completely unaware of anything, everything is an afterthought.

Same here who is sleeping, who or what is awake?
Can you describe it please?

Isn't the "I am completely unaware of anything" simply a thought? And the whole is just an assumption? Because how can it be known?
Lets say you wake up from "nothing" what is the DE of this in the morning?

Love,
Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

The pinpoint is me
What me?
Lets for the moment agree and assume that there is a focus point/pinpoint, but is this point a me?
What exactly is this me?

There is a general label of me. & no I cannot pinpoint this. I know through DE that there is no one thing that is me, but...
If a car hits me, I die. If the car drives past me, I survive.
If I look to my left, I see things to my left, if I look to my right I see things to my right.
If I feed me, I get full, if I don't feed me, I starve.
If I talk, people near me can hear, people far away cannot.
If I leave the house I can see the sky, if I stay indoors I see the ceiling.
I cannot see from the perspective over there, if I’m over here
My awareness is ‘me’ centric’

Same here who is sleeping, who or what is awake?
Can you describe it please?
Isn't the "I am completely unaware of anything" simply a thought? And the whole is just an assumption? Because how can it be known?
Lets say you wake up from "nothing" what is the DE of this in the morning?

My description on waking
Thoughts, ‘me’ centrix thoughts & other thoughts.
An awareness of sounds outside
An awareness of the room in my vision
An experience of sensations, dry throat, mild back ache, an itch
A sense of automated behaviour - must get up, must brush teeth, etc.
Desires & compulsions - a yawn, need to go to the toilet

[Jadzia]

Could you please answer these questions?
Who is sleeping, who or what is awake?
Can you describe it please?

Who is looking right or left?
What is right or left in DE?

Right now, you seem to fall for the story.....
It is a belief that story describes what is, that thought can be taken for face value.
Have a look.
There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the colour red ‘experienced’, or is the colour green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Love,
Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

Could you please answer these questions?
Who is sleeping, who or what is awake?
Can you describe it please?

From DE, thoughts, lots of thoughts & opinions.
Then when asleep those those thoughts stop.
I do not know what or who is sleeping. I have no knowledge & no experience of sleeping.
When awake I am a spinning carousel of thoughts colours & sensations.

Who is looking right or left?
What is right or left in DE?

I am a thought, a lot of thoughts.

What is right or left? Even if a try & look at just light & colour, I still have a perspective from which to view. If I turn my head right round, it’s like I am at the centre of a wheel or a merry go round. There are just colours & light but the colours move & dance from my perspective at the centre, where my eyes are looking out from.

Sound direction. I closed my eyes & tried to look with DE. The noise comes from a direction, again with my ears as the focal point.

Cold Wind. I walked home & could feel the cold wind on my front. Not on my back. There was a sense of where the cold sensation was coming from. My front was the focal point.

Right now, you seem to fall for the story.....
It is a belief that story describes what is, that thought can be taken for face value.
Have a look.
There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.
When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
Is the colour red ‘experienced’, or is the colour green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?
Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Contrast. As I look at the colour, it stands out from its surroundings. The colour creates an edge for the shape. It differentiates from other colours.
If it my sight only picked up the same colour then I wouldn’t be able to see the fluctuations in vision as clearly. Maybe with light & dark shadows there would be differentiation but not as much as with the colour.
Before I say the word colour, I see the colour, not as a different level of reality, but as a part of the whole. When I look at a picture of an elephant. I see the elephant as one, including the colour. I do not see an elephant shape & the colour grey.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Two different colours provide contrast for each other.
I don't think I understand this question.
If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?
I’m not sure.

[Jadzia]

From DE, thoughts, lots of thoughts & opinions.
Then when asleep those those thoughts stop.

There is no knowledge about thougths stopping in sleep - it is an assumption.

I have no knowledge & no experience of sleeping.

Right.

When awake I am a spinning carousel of thoughts colours & sensations.

Is there an I which/who is a "spinning carousel of thoughts colours & sensations"?

I still have a perspective from which to view.

Yes, there seems to be one, but is there an I which has a perspective?

You missed a bit the point with the exercise. _Stay simple.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Which colour is experienced when reading ‘GREEN’?
Does the word GREEN in any way influence the colour shown?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Does the label green do anything with the red? Is there any connection between the written GREEN and the colour red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Play with it.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

It might be good for a while to write daily. Sometimes one creates something new before the old is really gone.

Love,
Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

When awake I am a spinning carousel of thoughts colours & sensations.
Is there an I which/who is a "spinning carousel of thoughts colours & sensations"?

My awareness always seems to be from a perspective of ‘I’ but I cannot find the ‘I’

I still have a perspective from which to view.
Yes, there seems to be one, but is there an I which has a perspective?

Not yet found.

You missed a bit the point with the exercise. _Stay simple.
When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
Which colour is experienced when reading ‘GREEN’?

I experience red

Does the word GREEN in any way influence the colour shown?
Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

I can see that green is just a label. A mental abstract that is layered on top.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?
Does the label green do anything with the red? Is there any connection between the written GREEN and the colour red?

No, Green is a completely separate layer with no connection.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Play with it.

I have had a play with this! As I went through my day, I asked this very question about the trees, a light, a car, the wind, a stomach grumble, a noise.
I stared up at a low watt light bulb. The white light colour was part of it. But any definition of colour was further segregation, unnecessary discrimination & labeling.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

The labels have an effect on me & others but NOT on the reality of the situation. Good, bad, light, dark. All manufactured labels of abstraction.

It might be good for a while to write daily. Sometimes one creates something new before the old is really gone.

OK, I’ve been trying to take my time because some of your questions have been really testing. I’ll keep onto it & try & respond daily.

Much Love

[Jadzia]

You already got to the point that the label isn't that what it tries to describe and that the label is just a layer.

I can see that green is just a label. A mental abstract that is layered on top.

Good.

This layering on top, doesn't it refer to everything, to each and every label?
What about learned knowledge? Is it different to a label?

No, Green is a completely separate layer with no connection.

Wouldn't this work for everything?
Like

My awareness always seems to be from a perspective of ‘I’ but I cannot find the ‘I’

If you cannot find the I, how do you find awareness or perspective of ‘I’?
Is awareness, perspective a label or a thruth?
If a truth, isn't that what is called true not learned knowledge?
(Don't get stuck on the perspective, this will clear up one day, so just move on.)

Has anything that is described in the content of thought a connection to experience other than that it tries to describe the undescribable?
Go through the day and observe content of thought and see what is directly experienced at the very moment. Check again and again in a light hearted way.
Is the description the real thing? And how can it be known that the description isn't just an assumption?
Be descerning.

Ok, no pressure, if daily writing adds pressure, then it is fine that you write whenever you are ready.

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

Appendix:

...but I cannot find the ‘I’

You do find the I, right?
Not as entity, but where do you find the idea of I?

It is good to study what you find, looking for something you can't find, doesn't always do the trick.

Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

(Don't get stuck on the perspective, this will clear up one day, so just move on.)

I am getting stuck on my perspective. Time to move on!

Has anything that is described in the content of thought a connection to experience other than that it tries to describe the undescribable?
Go through the day and observe content of thought and see what is directly experienced at the very moment. Check again and again in a light hearted way.
Is the description the real thing? And how can it be known that the description isn't just an assumption?
Be descerning.

I have looked into whether all thoughts are added layers of discrimination.
Good & bad are clearly labels. Old & new. Hot & cold. There are many.
I have thoughts about the way I look & the way I act. These are followed by explanations. I see that these chains of thoughts are all added on top.
There are many self definitions. I am this way, I could do that, I couldn’t do the other.
This morning I kept my eyes closed in bed. I had a thought about where I was & how the room was set out. I had a picture of outside & many thoughts about how my day might unfold. Going past all these thoughts. I didn’t really know much at all compared to when I first starting believing my thoughts. There were so many layers of thought to peal back. These thoughts had built a whole world that was from imagination or assumption. (the same thing!) With DE I was able to go past many thoughts. I experienced sound & sensations.
Throughout the day I looked with DE.
So many assumptions, so many categories & conclusions, so many quick judgments & labels.

I heard my dog breathing behind behind me. But did I know it was my dog? Did I really know it was a dog at all or did I know if the sound was breathing? Could I really know if the sound was behind me?

I couldn’t know any of these things. They were all assumptions.

...but I cannot find the ‘I’
You do find the I, right?
Not as entity, but where do you find the idea of I?
It is good to study what you find, looking for something you can't find, doesn't always do the trick.

The idea of I
I burp. A physical sensation. The sensations inside this body give me the idea of I.
I experience sounds & sensations. My reactions - thoughts & physical response, give me the idea of I.
I am a solid that light bounces off
I am solid that sound bounces off. These might be assumptions but they give me the idea of I.
If someone shines a torch in my eyes or speaks to me. These give me a sense of I.
Then my thoughts.
“I’ve done enough typing now”, “Time for breakfast”, “Maybe I should do this now….”
All thoughts that give me an idea of I.

My desires are giving me a BIG idea of I.
It seems that I am in a constant state of seeking comfort or pleasure. Time for a drink, time to lay down, time for a snack, time for a break, what do i have to look forward to? What can i enjoy tonight? What should I watch on Netflix,
Much love.

[Jadzia]

These thoughts had built a whole world that was from imagination or assumption. (the same thing!)

Yes.
Is there anything in thoughts which isn't a label or concept?
Isn't a guess, an assumption, a memory, judgement, explanation, is fantasy?

I heard my dog breathing behind behind me. But did I know it was my dog? Did I really know it was a dog at all or did I know if the sound was breathing? Could I really know if the sound was behind me?

Right, it is an assumption - I hear the dog - might be the grandfather.... big smoker or so ;-)
Most thoughts are really nothing but guesses.

[quote]Not as entity, but where do you find the idea of I?
All thoughts that give me an idea of I. [/quote]
Yess, It seems as if the I is "created", "reafirmed" and thougths are self referencing, right?

My desires are giving me a BIG idea of I.

oh yes, identifications of any kind. This is me, this is what I don't like, this is a desire of mine and so on.

Check this again and again. Always check thought content against what is actually there in DE. Do this for an hour and then simply live and then do it again.
Let what you've found and still find sink in.

What if the whole I is an idea, a phantasy?
What if thoughts are not thruth, carved in stone, but guesses?
What if the "my story" is the same as a story in a movie?
What if the what ifs are just it, this, life happening?
What does this do with you?
Check how you feel with this.

Love,
Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

These thoughts had built a whole world that was from imagination or assumption. (the same thing!)
Yes.
Is there anything in thoughts which isn't a label or concept?
Isn't a guess, an assumption, a memory, judgement, explanation, is fantasy?

OK I agreed a first, in fact I still agree but I now see a reason why thoughts can appear so convincing.
The sight & touch will often support each other.
The wind blew my hair over my eyes. I could feel the hair & I could see the hair. The sensation on my face were labelled hair & the image was labelled as hair. Both labels agreed & provided a convincing argument that this is truth.
If a see a brick wall & then run into it. This is also a convincing argument that there is a wall.
If I break my leg, my leg is broken. I cannot walk on it.
With other things like food, we have the addition of smell that creates another dimension to convince.

The other thing that convinces me that the labels are true is the concept of consequence. If I break my leg. My leg exists, & the break in my leg also exists, because I can no longer walk on the broken leg. How can the leg not exist as a leg, if one day it is fine & the next broken?

Not as entity, but where do you find the idea of I?
All thoughts that give me an idea of I.
Yess, It seems as if the I is "created", "reafirmed" and thougths are self referencing, right?
My desires are giving me a BIG idea of I.
oh yes, identifications of any kind. This is me, this is what I don't like, this is a desire of mine and so on.

Check this again and again. Always check thought content ag ainst what is actually there in DE. Do this for an hour and then simply live and then do it again.
Let what you've found and still find sink in.

I seem to have a unique combination of likes & dislikes - THOUGHTS supported by a whole variety of sensations - externally labelled physical sensations like heat & shivers, then internally labelled sensations like hormones, heart rate, serotonin, dopamine, nervous system, brain cell activity & receptors,...
These desires provide me with a convincing cocktail of identity. I have checked this out again & again. Ultimately they are sensations with labels & then a whole stream of reactive thoughts. Sit up, scratch, eat…

What if the whole I is an idea, a fantasy?
What if thoughts are not truth, carved in stone, but guesses?
What if the "my story" is the same as a story in a movie?
What if the what ifs are just it, this, life happening?
What does this do with you?
Check how you feel with this.

My brain goes into overdrive with these questions. But I’m ignoring the thoughts & trying to see with DE.
I sit with the single thought - “Life is just happening”

I feel calm. Then I feel excited that I don't have to worry so much.
I feel a slight anxiety inside, a sensation. It’s bound up with a thought about my work. I return to the thought “Life is just happening” & I see a separation between thought & feeling.
I do this a few times. I wonder without the thought, why do i have the feeling?

I will do some more tomorrow.
Much Love

[Jadzia]

OK I agreed a first, in fact I still agree but I now see a reason why thoughts can appear so convincing.

That is the the way a story is built up - the clearer this is seen, how exactly it is done, or seems to be done - the easier the way out is.

If I break my leg. My leg exists, & the break in my leg also exists, because I can no longer walk on the broken leg. How can the leg not exist as a leg, if one day it is fine & the next broken?

This is called logical thinking, one of the biggest lies ever told, this logical thinking.
First is there a leg? How can a label be something? What exactly is there?
So the label appears and what follows is what? An example of logical deductive thinking or simply a story?

Please play a game.. It is called "I don't believe anything my thoughts tell! Which appears as content of thought.
It is also called: Only that exists which can be experienced directly!
PLAY!

Something else to ponder about and mull over:
You learn nothing new here, you simply unlearn some unnessecary fuzz.
You might not know, but you are just waiting for the moment of letting go to slip through the net. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

[Sidstrate]

I'm going to spend another day with this
Much love

[Sidstrate]

Please play a game.. It is called "I don't believe anything my thoughts tell! Which appears as content of thought.
It is also called: Only that exists which can be experienced directly!
PLAY!

OK. I doubt my thoughts. I break it apart. To sight & sound. Eventually I conclude that I cannot trust either. Even the sight of my own arm. I can touch it, feel it & I can see it. This makes me ‘THINK’ I have an arm, which is just a thought. I watch ‘arm’ move & cannot find a controller. I cannot see how & why it moves.
I experience it directly - sensations.

I was walking across a grass field, As I looked out, I doubted my thoughts. I saw the abstraction of colour. So I dropped this. I saw the abstraction of 3 dimensions. So I dropped this. I felt the wind on my face & body. So I closed my eyes & felt sensations. The sensations didn’t tell me anything before thought came in, they were just sensations.
It sometimes feels like a giant computer simulation but this is another thought.
I have been reminding myself that “Life is just happening”
I find it difficult to feel & see at the same time in DE. I have to concentrate on either sensations (with eyes closed) or sight, sight is the most challenging.

Something else to ponder about and mull over:
You learn nothing new here, you simply unlearn some unnecessary fuzz.
You might not know, but you are just waiting for the moment of letting go to slip through the net. :-)

This made me smile!!! I have been letting go. Allowing & letting go again.
I think i just need to continue with doubting thoughts & letting go.

[Jadzia]

Good work.
Go on like that.

Start noticing and allowing all feelings which appear. Observe them coming up. One word, like joy or fear, or sadness. Coming and going. Connect and allow the coming up and the disappearing.

I have been letting go. Allowing & letting go again.
I think i just need to continue with doubting thoughts & letting go.

Just for the record: Is there anyone allowing, doubting, letting go?
Leave thoughts, sensefeel.

Love,
Jadzia