Guide to truth

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

There is the first initial seeing (seeing that there is and never was any personal "I"), and from there its the process off falling in which the structure falls apart (which took me 2/3 years but is different per person). Once seen, its never unseen. That why I want to make sure that you are clear.

It seems like life is not just happening when there is any planning going on. For example, when I read your questions thoughts come and there is the intent of looking and answering the questions. Very mysterious since I know there is no self implementing this plan. Maybe I'm thinking about this too much-- but if at 9 I plan to go swimming at 2 and then I do so it feels like it wasn't just happening. Or would I have gone swimming at 2 no matter what, thoughts or no thoughts?

You are drifting away from the conversation here. This is all the dream of the watermelon. All story, all interpretation by thought.

What is planning? What does the word happening refer to?

They refer to nothing in the direct experience. Its simply an empty thought (planning/happening) like the watermelon.

If I look at the feeling of life happening or not happening directly it is just thoughts, interpretations.

Yes, so what is there more to know in the light of this inquiry?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
I suspected I was drifting in that last post. I just needed to say those things to make sure they weren't valid. I won't drift again.
I don't know what more needs to be seen at this point. I'm in the unknown. Is there a way to encourage the structure to collapse in ways besides this conversation?
Please ask me whatever questions you think would be helpful.
Carolyn

[Prahathit]

I just realized I have no control over the body. A bit unsettling...

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for the replies. Best way is to encourage " falling". That is to say to experience the sensations which you want to supress and reallly experience them and to look at them to see if there is anything behind if fully experienced. So after seeing its more a process off "allowing" sensations to be experienced.

What is the body? Does the body exist? Or is this also just a thought/ a belief?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Could you write more about allowing suppressed sensations? I know there must be some, but I'm not aware of them.

What is the body? Does the body exist? Or is this also just a thought/ a belief?
I've actually been looking at the body for a while now. This is what I have seen: at no time can the body be perceived as a whole. Visually, the body is only fragments. Like right now I can see the tip of my nose and my forearms and arms. The rest of me I only imagine. Thought creates the image of a body like a gingerbread cookie man. Even if I look into a full length mirror I can't see the back of my body. I only imagine it. I can't even see another person's body completely.
At this moment I'm aware of my body against the chair and some other sensations that are continually changing. But none of those pieces adds up to a body.
So I would have to say that the body doesn't exist. It's only a thought/belief.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

None of those adds up to a body, true. Can you again and simply confirm the following by looking: there is simply an image or colors plus a label thought " this is a body"?

With allowing I mean everytime you notice tension or sensations which have that I ness you invite and experience the sensations fully instead of " using thoughts to hide yourself from the sensations or to run away fron them". You know now that there is nothing behind it anyhow ;), so there is nothing to be afraid off. Everytime you do this more " space" will enter.

Sending love

Barry


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[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
It must have been late at night for you when you wrote to me. Thank you for doing that.

I do "see" that the body and all objects are just colors that get assigned names by thought. But I don't experience this as real as I do the fragmentary nature of the body. It feels more like I'm trying to convince myself.

Yesterday I said I wasn't aware of sensations being suppressed. But I was so wrong about that. Every day I get very upset, very triggered. Instead of feeling the sensations I try to change the situation so that I feel better. Hence there are many opportunities to "fall." Knowing that this is the way to go will make the pain endurable.

Sending love to you too. I deeply appreciate this conversation.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

You noticed, yes I had a late evening :).

It feels more like I'm trying to convince myself.

Convincing yourself suggest thinking about what is. Thought cannot explain the reality you see. That is the paradox. What remains is simply what is.

There is just that simple seeing of the emptyness of thoughts. I,body,you,me.

Can you again look at the the process.

As an exsersice: Look at a body:

If you drop the word body just for a second, and confirm and look, what remains is simply the experience (I use colors, and sight, but these are also thoughts, and needed to have the conversation). Than afterwards the thought body pops up "explaining" what is. Is there anything more to know than that?

Every day I get very upset, very triggered. Instead of feeling the sensations I try to change the situation so that I feel better. Hence there are many opportunities to "fall

Yes great analysis. There is no one behind the sensations, nothing to protect. Now its up to your willingingness and courage to take this process a step further and to invite and experience those triggered upset sensation fully (which isnt Always nice). And also to see if they remain and to keep confirming by looking that nothing will die if you do. Just false pretenses, false beliefs.

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry--
If you drop the word body just for a second, and confirm and look, what remains is simply the experience (I use colors, and sight, but these are also thoughts, and needed to have the conversation). Than afterwards the thought body pops up "explaining" what is. Is there anything more to know than that?

When I look at "self" or "mind" or "truth" I see NOTHING when I look. Looking at the body is different. When I look, there is something to be seen. I can't seem to see the body apart from the thought "body."

I get upset when my daughter takes long showers because California is in drought. I don't usually say anything to her, but try to distract myself from the sound of the running water, sometimes going to another part of the house. Today I stopped what I was doing and paid as much attention as I could to the painful sensations. I saw that these were ok and even if there were thoughts and stories going on like "she shouldn't be doing that" that that was ok too.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

This is a little deeper looking

When I look, there is something to be seen

Yes something is happening, but the question is whether or not a thought can really describe what is happening in this moment. You really need to look in this moment.

Lets take a different label, a kitchen for example. If you look directly here and now to your kitchen.

Where is this moment does the kitchen stop, and the dishwasher begins?

Or is the kitchen also wood, a microwave, a coffee machine, closets, dishwasher etc all combined in this moment?

Than can the word kitchen really describe the

totality

of this moment?

Can any label really describe this moment in full, in its totality? Or are thoughts simply labels but they cannot describe the here and now (maybe could come in handy when we communicate)?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

This is making sense to me now.

Or is the kitchen also wood, a microwave, a coffee machine, closets, dishwasher etc all combined in this moment?

Actually the kitchen is many trillions of events taking place. And no way can a word, a thought, describe it. The thought seems to hardly exist compared to the reality of what is going on.

I can understand this in terms of the body too. I think what was confusing me was the question: Does the body exist? Something does seem to exist but it can't be described by the word body.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes. There is just something happening. No one is doing it, and yet the world is just creating itself in each moment.

What needs to be seen that no thoughts can describe this moment. And since there is only this moment, its the thoughts that creates the confusion, the separation. You are not separate from the image/colors outside, you are them, "you" are just not doing them.

Lets take a baby being born. The baby doesnt know any language, no learned labels.

Does the baby sees differently than you? Or similar to you (and just no learned labels)?

Since the baby learned no labels yet. Does the baby know the difference between here and there? How does the baby perceive the world?

When does the illusionary "veil" of separation came to be for the baby?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Does the baby sees differently than you? Or similar to you (and just no learned labels)? I don't really know how a baby sees. It seems a baby doesn't have a sense of its body as an object that belongs to him/her. But definitely the baby has no learned labels. It would be just experiencing without borders or separation.

Since the baby learned no labels yet. Does the baby know the difference between here and there? I would say the baby doesn't know the difference between here, being inside a body, and there, the world "outside." How does the baby perceive the world? I'd say the baby must perceive itself and the world as one flowing experience.

When does the illusionary "veil" of separation came to be for the baby? The veil would come when the baby learns language and other people teach him or her the word and concept "I." The baby is called out of the sense of oneness and forced to exist in a small space.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes great answers, i just putting you a little more into the aha.

The baby is called out of the sense of oneness and forced to exist in a small space.

Again, oneness and small space are also common learned labels in "spirituality". They are also not seen. Its oke to use them to speak, but they are not real like I, and the watermelon, simply labels, thoughts.

Those labels get a lot of people stuck with seeing since it creates expectations of " oneness" and " space".

I think by saying this you will understand so I dont post any questions.

What are the questions you still have? Or do you think you are ready for the final questions?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
I've seen the final questions in the book. I could answer them now but it wouldn't be a deep answering. I'd like you to keep asking more questions about the sense of being in control, if that's okay with you.
Carolyn