eternal prayer

[illusions13]

Sorry, got busy.
Have lost touch in a way.
Will ponder again and respond soon.

[illusions13]

Hello.

Unable to grasp the sensation thing.
Am getting a feeling that they are not necessarily real.
They seem to be derived from thoughts.

Re sense of separateness....I still feel it..like its me...things are happening to me...but at the same time...I feel things are just happening.
When i think too much or ponder and analyse...thats when it becomes about me.
And that does not feel real.

[Ilona]

Define word real in your own words, please. What is real? What is not real? Don't look up descriptions of others, just describe what feels true for you.

Sending love

[illusions13]

Real feels like something that you just know 'is'.
It needs no explanation, analysis or understanding.
Its there whether u have any thoughts about it or not.
You just feel it, know it.

[Ilona]

So if there is a feeling, is it real?
Are emotions real?
Can you feel an imagined emotion?

[illusions13]

It feels real because of the physical sensations but doesnt feel like they are real as they seem to be created by thought.
Going by same logic, emotions wouldnt be real either.
But they feel real.

I dont think I can feel an imagined emotion.

[Ilona]

Emotions are not about logic!!!
It's a feeling, felt, as real as it is felt. Thinking and feeling is not the same, can you see that? Feeling is not created by thought. Same like sound is not created by colours, it's a different perception channel. Can you see that? If you feel sadness, it's a felt sense and it is accompanied by thought, thoughts describe what is felt. But it's nothing to do with logic or analysing.

Sensations are felt, do you agree?
Thoughts or no thoughts, sensations are here.

Some thoughts are emotionally charged, yes, but thoughts and feelings are not one and the same. Tell me in your experience, how thoughts are different from feelings? Is mood a thought or a feeling? Is anger a thought or a feeling? Is joy a thought or sensation?

If your friend dies, is sadness a thought or a feeling? Is grief a thought or a feeling? Play with this and tell me, not from logic, but from experience, do you see that feelings are as real as thinking, as seeing colour, hearing sounds, tasting, smelling and touch?

Sending love

[illusions13]

I think I am getting a bit confused with words...feelings emotions sensations etc.
Will try keep it simple. :)

A sense is accompanied by thought...makes sense.

I agree...sensations are felt.

Thoughts are just words n sentences put together. A detailing or explanation of what is happening.
Feelings are what you undergo physically or emotionally due to the happenings...no words, no explanations needed for that.
You just experience them and live them.

Mood, anger, joy, sadness, grief, ....not thoughts.

[Ilona]

Good to clarify that. Yes, keep it simple.
Now let's see where is the feeler of feelings, is there one?
When sensation arises, is it happening to someone that is receiving the feeling? Is there a gap between the feeling, feeler and the felt? Look deeply and write what you notice.

Sending love

[illusions13]

I am unable to identify or see a feeler of feelings.
I just seem to know that there is a feeling....if i just look at it.

Am going with the feeling/sensation of sadness right now...
It just seems to exist...as a feeling.
I cant really distinguish between or pinpoint the feeling, feeler and felt.
They all seem to be one.
The 'sadness' is all there seems to be.

I cant feel any 'receiving' to the feeling, its not like it came from somewhere else. It just materialised out of nowhere. It just started existing.

[Ilona]

It's good to notice that feeling arises and there is nothing outside of it receiving it. It's one - perceived, perceived- perceiving.
Is that sensation I? Is it happening to I? Is there i at all?
What happens when you ask these questions. Describe in detail, what arise as you ask this.

Sending love

[illusions13]

Is that sensation I? Is it happening to I? Is there i at all?

There seems to be a physicality associated with the sensation that gets noticed strongly.
This physicality seems associated with an I, which is probably just the body, as a location where the sensation is felt.

But if I just focus on the sensation without attributing where, who etc...its very vague...and just there.
I am unable to pinpoint where and it seems to merge with the stuff outside the perceived boundaries of the body and mind.
In fact even the boundaries are hazy.
And there is no 'I'. There is no association with anything. The sensation just is.

[Ilona]

Yes, good to notice, sensation just is.
Now have a closer look, where is the boundary, is there a line between here and there, inside and outside? Where does 'you' end and out there begin?
With eyes opened and closed, find the line that separates inside from outside.
Describe what you find


Sending love

[illusions13]

Eyes open:
I dont feel any boundary.
There doesnt seem to be any physical location.
I am unable to pinpoint any location for 'me' at all. No start, no end.

Eyes closed:
Now I get a feeling of boundary, the body, the mind. But within that...again no start end or location.

Not sure if I am answering or expressing properly or have got it correctly!

[Ilona]

Yes, good work.
With eyes closed, where is the boundary? Where does the body end and world begin? Or is it just an idea about a boundary?
Is there a witness ?
Keep looking

Sending love