Please guide x

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

I am going to break up your last post into two. I don't want to flood you with information and questions in one long post. Read the post slowly and several times. Sit with it. If there is something that you aren't sure about...by all means ask questions.

Whats stopping me from looking?

The seeming resistance/fear is a defense mechanism against actually ‘seeing’ because there is fear with seeing. Fear of the unknown! Will I lose my identity, will I disappear, will I know who I am, will my life fall apart, who am I if I am not this person….all sorts of questions will appear. Just be aware of this....it is normal.

but i'm never going to make it happen if what i am is a thought. and for all the years books teachings words none of that has done a thing. just looking in thought thinking thats looking.

Who said that you were only a thought? How can a thought be aware of thoughts, sounds, sensations, colours, smells and taste? The idea of you being a person is a thought, but YOU (not Shelly) are not a thought.

You are not nothing. There is no you to be anything or nothing. It's not that you are dissolving/disappearing into oblivion…. there was no you in the first place. In essence, at LU we guide out of identification. We don't give new ID’s, but get you to see that there is nothing there for ID’s to stick to.

Can you find a gap in between thoughts?
Can you see where one thought ends and another thought begins?

there is sensation happening, sound, then a thought so yes there are gaps

So LOOK very carefully. When the sensations and sounds are noticed…are they then labelled? (It happens so quickly and automatically that it isn’t noticed unless you really look)
How do you know it’s a sensation or a sound? How do you know it’s a gap? Did a thought appear saying “this is a gap”? Did a thought appear saying this is a 'sensation' and this is a 'sound'? Or that the sound was a bird or a car or whatever? Let me know what you find.

What is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings?

you said when this was answered last time that I was thinking, not LOOKING. it feels like when I am looking and not thinking there is something wrong or false, like a resistance there.

And what says “when I am looking and not thinking there is something wrong or false”? Is someone thinking that or is that just another appearing thought? (Thoughts are everything that is written, verbal and self-talk)

What is the AE of “resistance”?
The label “resistance” is the AE of thought and NOT the AE of resistance
The sensation labelled “resistance” is the AE of sensation and NOT the AE of resistance
The colour/image labelled body/Shelly is the AE of colour/image and NOT the AE of a person in resistance.

So there is no actual experience of “resistance”. What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour which another thought marries together labelling it “resistance”.

Can a label be in “resistance”?
Can a sensation be in “resistance”?
Can colour/image be in “resistance”?

What exactly is it (thing/entity) that is in resistance?

Nothing is experiencing emotions/feelings.

Yes. And every time that you write it is your emotions and feelings I will continue to ask…what is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings and to describe them. This is a way to get you to LOOK.

There is no such thing as an emotion/feeling, what is really appearing is label/thought + sensation which a second thought (not easily seen/hear) 'glues together' and says that the sensation + thought/label go hand in hand and are called fear, joy, despair...or whatever.

Please find that someone/something and describe them to me in precise detail.

there is just the sensations/thought/feeling/emotion but no owner

Yes, beautiful…..no owner. Now LOOK to see if emotions really exist?
Break down the emotion into AE. What is actually appearing? How can an emotion really exist when there is nothing that is feeling these emotions. You wrote above that there is nothing experiencing emotions/feelings and yet you keep writing about emotions/feelings. LOOK at them and LOOK for that which is experiencing them.

Actual experience (AE) is sound + thought + sensation + smell + taste + colour/image. Where in there does it say emotions/feelings?

For example, the AE of hopelessness

The label itself “hopelessness” is AE of thought – so it exists, HOWEVER what the thought is ABOUT (the content of the label/thought) is a story. (ie I'll never get it, I am a loser, AKA story) It has to be. What/who is the hopelessness happening to?

The sensation that thought says goes with the label “hopelessness” is the AE of sensation only.
Does a sensation know that it is “hopeless”?
Does a sensation in any way suggest that it knows anything about “hopelessness”?

So if the thought itself and the sensation itself does not know anything about “hopeless”…what exactly is it that knows? Find that thing/entity/person who knows what “hopelessness” is and feels it? And when you find that thing/entity/person….describe them to me.


Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Nothing is experiencing emotions/feelings.

Yes. And every time that you write it is your emotions and feelings I will continue to ask…what is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings and to describe them. This is a way to get you to LOOK.

There is no such thing as an emotion/feeling, what is really appearing is label/thought + sensation which a second thought (not easily seen/hear) 'glues together' and says that the sensation + thought/label go hand in hand and are called fear, joy, despair...or whatever.

Yes. And every time that you write it is your emotions and feelings I will continue to ask…what is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings and to describe them. This is a way to get you to LOOK.

it feels like its an emotion 'my feeling' till I look and see that it is just a thought/sensation, that there is nothing actually there having a feeling or emotion. I used the word emotion or feeling because it feels so familiar/personal, like its me as an entity but it cant be found so the emotion/feeling also cant be found. in ae its a thought with sensation

but i'm never going to make it happen if what i am is a thought. and for all the years books teachings words none of that has done a thing. just looking in thought thinking thats looking.


Who said that you were only a thought? How can a thought be aware of thoughts, sounds, sensations, colours, smells and taste? The idea of you being a person is a thought, but YOU (not Shelly) are not a thought.

You are not nothing. There is no you to be anything or nothing. It's not that you are dissolving/disappearing into oblivion…. there was no you in the first place. In essence, at LU we guide out of identification. We don't give new ID’s, but get you to see that there is nothing there for ID’s to stick to.

so it was all thought. thanks very much.

Can you find a gap in between thoughts?
Can you see where one thought ends and another thought begins?


there is sensation happening, sound, then a thought so yes there are gaps

So LOOK very carefully. When the sensations and sounds are noticed…are they then labelled? (It happens so quickly and automatically that it isn’t noticed unless you really look)
How do you know it’s a sensation or a sound? How do you know it’s a gap? Did a thought appear saying “this is a gap”? Did a thought appear saying this is a 'sensation' and this is a 'sound'? Or that the sound was a bird or a car or whatever? Let me know what you find.

ah I see what you are saying Kay. yes its a thought that says there is a gap, a thought that says this is sound and so on that's clear now. there's no comment without thought about anything or what anything is.

What is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings?

you said when this was answered last time that I was thinking, not LOOKING. it feels like when I am looking and not thinking there is something wrong or false, like a resistance there.

And what says “when I am looking and not thinking there is something wrong or false”? Is someone thinking that or is that just another appearing thought? (Thoughts are everything that is written, verbal and self-talk)

What is the AE of “resistance”?
The label “resistance” is the AE of thought and NOT the AE of resistance
The sensation labelled “resistance” is the AE of sensation and NOT the AE of resistance
The colour/image labelled body/Shelly is the AE of colour/image and NOT the AE of a person in resistance.

So there is no actual experience of “resistance”. What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour which another thought marries together labelling it “resistance”.

it's another thought appearing

Can a label be in “resistance”?

no a label 'resistance' cant be in resistance, its a label not the actual

Can a sensation be in “resistance”?

there is the sensation and then the interpretation(label) is something that comes after the sensation

Can colour/image be in “resistance”?

no

What exactly is it (thing/entity) that is in resistance?

a dream

So if the thought itself and the sensation itself does not know anything about “hopeless”…what exactly is it that knows? Find that thing/entity/person who knows what “hopelessness” is and feels it? And when you find that thing/entity/person….describe them to me.

theres nothing there but it feels like there is. there's the thought this is hopeless...and sensation.

what exactly is it that knows? theres nothing there that knows but its known. but for hopelessness to be known that has to be a thought as in a label 'hopelessness' so its a thought that knows a thought. its thought

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

Yes. And every time that you write it is your emotions and feelings I will continue to ask…what is it exactly that is experiencing emotions/feelings and to describe them. This is a way to get you to LOOK.

it feels like its an emotion 'my feeling' till I look and see that it is just a thought/sensation, that there is nothing actually there having a feeling or emotion. I used the word emotion or feeling because it feels so familiar/personal, like its me as an entity but it cant be found so the emotion/feeling also cant be found. in ae its a thought with sensation

Yes exactly! Wonderful clarity! It is important to always LOOK to see what is actually appearing and not just ‘believe’ an appearing thought.

Is there anyone/anything that can actually believe a thought?

ah I see what you are saying Kay. yes its a thought that says there is a gap, a thought that says this is sound and so on that's clear now. there's no comment without thought about anything or what anything is.

Yes! Nice LOOKING! Everything is thought based.
If you were to watch a silent movie and if you could stop all thoughts…would you know what was happening in the movie…or would it be just a bunch of figures moving on a screen?

What exactly is it (thing/entity) that is in resistance?

a dream

I don’t know how a dream could be in resistance. “Resistance” does not exist for anyone or anything.

So if the thought itself and the sensation itself does not know anything about “hopeless”…what exactly is it that knows? Find that thing/entity/person who knows what “hopelessness” is and feels it? And when you find that thing/entity/person….describe them to me.

theres nothing there but it feels like there is. there's the thought this is hopeless...and sensation.

I want you to LOOK carefully and tell me what the word “feeling” is pointing to. Is it pointing to actual experience or story?

What is the AE of “feeling”?

what exactly is it that knows? theres nothing there that knows but its known. but for hopelessness to be known that has to be a thought as in a label 'hopelessness' so its a thought that knows a thought. its thought

Thought can’t know anything at all. If a thought was to know something it would have to be an entity. Do you see a thought (words) walking down the street?

The label “hopelessness” is known as AE of thought but what “hopelessness” is ABOUT, is nothing but a story.
Does the word “hopelessness” itself is AE of thought but does the thought point to actual experience?
What is it exactly that can experience “hopelessness”?


Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Is there anyone/anything that can actually believe a thought?

no.

I want you to LOOK carefully and tell me what the word “feeling” is pointing to. Is it pointing to actual experience or story?

its a story

What is the AE of “feeling”?

thought + sensation

The label “hopelessness” is known as AE of thought but what “hopelessness” is ABOUT, is nothing but a story.

Does the word “hopelessness” itself is AE of thought but does the thought point to actual experience?

the thought doesn't point to anything in actual experience

What is it exactly that can experience “hopelessness”?

its a thought. the word hopelessness is a thought and I am hopeless is another thought. theres nothing in AE that is hopeless. its a story a thought not the actual experience

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

Does the word “hopelessness” itself is AE of thought but does the thought point to actual experience?

the thought doesn't point to anything in actual experience

What is it exactly that can experience “hopelessness”?

its a thought. the word hopelessness is a thought and I am hopeless is another thought. theres nothing in AE that is hopeless. its a story a thought not the actual experience

Yes! :) Is it clear then that the actual (literal) thought itself is actual experience but what the thought is about is a story?

Okay...let's look at the exercise with the GREEN label.

When you look at the word label 'GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

red word that says green

Yes. There is AE of thought/label ‘green’ but what the label is ABOUT is story because what the actual experience (reality) is, is the colour red.

The label/thought ‘green’ points to something that is not there therefore it is story/fiction/illusion.
Is the colour red experienced, or is the colour green experienced as the label suggests?

the colour red is experienced

Yes. So the label was pointing to story and not to the actual experience of the colour red.
Just like when label points to a sensation and calls it ‘fear’. The actual experience is sensation and not fear. The label ‘fear’ is actual experience of a thought, but it is NOT the actual experience of fear.

Can you see this?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?

no. the word green on a piece of paper doesn't make the paper green its a word

Yes…terrific! So when thought labels something, does that change what is actually there? So when you see a painting of a tree….does the image of the tree change the paint (the paint being what is actually there?) or are the tree and the paint the exact same thing?

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here and now (red colour)?

the label suggests something other than what is here{red}

Yes the label suggests….but does it make it so? So thought can say anything…but does it make it so?

The label ‘fear’ points to something other than what is ‘experienced’ which is sensation and the face value of the label itself.
Is this clear?

Is green-ness inherent attributes of the experience of the colour red, or is green just a word label on the experience of the colour red?

the word Green is not the colour green. so if the word green is written on a red piece of paper it wont make the paper turn green, the paper is red

Wonderful Shelly – I really like how you explain that.
So if you had some gold and you made a ring out of that gold…does that change the gold? Or is it still gold but with a seeming form? Can the ring actually change the gold?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

no the red is unaffected whatever word is written

Great! A tree is actual EXPERIENCE of ‘colour’. So does the label ‘tree’ change colour in any way or is the colour still EXPERIENCE with a seeming form? Is the tree separate (different) from colour and is colour separate from EXPERIENCE?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

redness does not become good or bad. the labels good or bad have no effect on reality

Yes!

So when a sensation is labelled as ‘fear’…is the sensation affected in any way by the label? Is the sensation still just a sensation or is it now something else called ‘fear’? Does the label affect the sensation?


So what exactly is it that is suffering because they aren’t ‘getting it’ yet?
It is a passing thought

Yes it’s a passing thought…and there is no entity/thought/thing that the passing thought is appearing to or who is suffering.
Is this clear?

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Hi Kay. Sorry I couldnt get enough time to answer today. Be back tomorrow to answer properly. many thanks shelly

[forgetmenot]

Hey Shelly....no problems...thanks for letting me know :)

K

[falcontooth]

Yes! :) Is it clear then that the actual (literal) thought itself is actual experience but what the thought is about is a story?

Yes its clear. Its clearing.

So the label was pointing to story and not to the actual experience of the colour red.
Just like when label points to a sensation and calls it ‘fear’. The actual experience is sensation and not fear. The label ‘fear’ is actual experience of a thought, but it is NOT the actual experience of fear.

Can you see this?

yes

So when thought labels something, does that change what is actually there?

No. A label doesn't change what is actually there. Its a word.

So when you see a painting of a tree….does the image of the tree change the paint (the paint being what is actually there?

I'm not sure I understand this question Kay. does the image of the tree change the paint..as in does the paint become an actual tree? if so no. its paint in the shape of an actual tree but its still just paint.the paints never going to become a tree just because there's the shape.

) or are the tree and the paint the exact same thing?

I'm not sure I understand this part.

Yes the label suggests….but does it make it so? So thought can say anything…but does it make it so?

no it doesn't. the thought 'it should be sunny' doesn't stop the rain or the thought 'they shouldn't send me emails' doesn't stop the messages from coming. The thought is actual experience but the content doesn't touch what is actual

The label ‘fear’ points to something other than what is ‘experienced’ which is sensation and the face value of the label itself.
Is this clear?

Yes.

So if you had some gold and you made a ring out of that gold…does that change the gold?

no the golds still gold it doesn't change.

Or is it still gold but with a seeming form?

Its still gold no matter the apparent form

Can the ring actually change the gold?

no the ring cant change the gold. the golds still gold in whatever shape it appears to be in

A tree is actual EXPERIENCE of ‘colour’. So does the label ‘tree’ change colour in any way or is the colour still EXPERIENCE with a seeming form?

this questions not clear sorry Kay, some of them are like tongue twisters to my brain. a tree is actual experience of colour. Yes. so does the label 'tree' change in any way. no. the word 'tree' doesnt become the actual experience of colour. like the paint on the wall of the tree shape which is the seeming form, theres just really colour. and thats what you meant by they are exactly the same thing, if thats what I am understanding by this observation. The tree and the paint are colour in AE

Is the tree separate (different) from colour and is colour separate from EXPERIENCE?

the experience of tree is colour. you cant separate the two as you cant have the seeming form without the colour and you cant have the colour without the seeming form unless there is no seeming form, then the colour can be there..but even no seeming form would be a seeming form of no seeming form

So when a sensation is labelled as ‘fear’…is the sensation affected in any way by the label?

no its not. although with sensations a label fear might bring further focus on the sensation and keep it going for longer. it seems that way. but even if that was happening it doesn't change the actual sensation into the label fear, the sensation is already there and the label is added onto that sensation and its given a meaning, in this case'fear'.

Is the sensation still just a sensation or is it now something else called ‘fear’?

the sensation is still just a sensation.

Does the label affect the sensation?

only in the way I mentioned above, but it doesn't change the sensation itself. and maybe it doesn't make it last any longer, as the lasting longer would also be a label about actual experience=only a sensation

Yes it’s a passing thought…and there is no entity/thought/thing that the passing thought is appearing to or who is suffering.
Is this clear?

yes. the thought 'I am suffering' in actual experience there is just colour and its unaffected by the content of the thought.
the colours here, the sensations here, the labels here but there isn't an actual sufferer here.



Many Thanks
Shelly

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

You sound really clear to me that you get the distinction between the AE of thought and the content of thought. I gave you some curly questions…but you have gotten your head around it (so to speak :)!

Give this a read and if you have no questions, we can move on and look at control/decisions/choices.

So when you see a painting of a tree….does the image of the tree change the paint (the paint being what is actually there?

I'm not sure I understand this question Kay. does the image of the tree change the paint..as in does the paint become an actual tree? if so no. its paint in the shape of an actual tree but its still just paint.the paints never going to become a tree just because there's the shape.

You understood this perfectly – great! So the tree does not change the paint…they are one and the same. The tree is a shape/form that is ‘made out of’ the paint – but the tree doesn’t change the paint...the tree is painted with the paint...so the tree is paint. There would be no tree (form) without the paint (Paint being experience).

or are the tree and the paint the exact same thing?

I'm not sure I understand this part.

As above :)

Yes the label suggests….but does it make it so? So thought can say anything…but does it make it so?

no it doesn't. the thought 'it should be sunny' doesn't stop the rain or the thought 'they shouldn't send me emails' doesn't stop the messages from coming. The thought is actual experience but the content doesn't touch what is actual

Lovely clarity!

Can the ring actually change the gold?

no the ring cant change the gold. the golds still gold in whatever shape it appears to be in

So neither the label ‘ring’ or the form labelled ‘ring’ can change what is actually there…which is the gold (experience).

A tree is actual EXPERIENCE of ‘colour’. So does the label ‘tree’ change colour in any way or is the colour still EXPERIENCE with a seeming form?

this questions not clear sorry Kay, some of them are like tongue twisters to my brain. a tree is actual experience of colour. Yes. so does the label 'tree' change in any way. no. the word 'tree' doesnt become the actual experience of colour.

The label ‘tree’ does not change the paint in anyway. In other words, the label does not affect the paint. Paint is still paint and the tree is paint, as without the paint there would be no tree.

like the paint on the wall of the tree shape which is the seeming form, theres just really colour. and thats what you meant by they are exactly the same thing, if thats what I am understanding by this observation. The tree and the paint are colour in AE

The label ‘tree’ does not change the paint in anyway. In other words, the label does not affect the paint. Paint is still paint and the tree is paint, as without the paint there would be no tree. The paint 'knows' the tree as itself!

So when a sensation is labelled as ‘fear’…is the sensation affected in any way by the label?

no its not. although with sensations a label fear might bring further focus on the sensation and keep it going for longer. it seems that way. but even if that was happening it doesn't change the actual sensation into the label fear, the sensation is already there and the label is added onto that sensation and its given a meaning, in this case'fear'.

Yes. Giving the sensation all the room it needs ‘in the body’ is the best thing you can do. Drop the story that is creating the ‘fear’ but allow the sensation to be and it will pass on its own. This is the only way to begin to release the stickiness of stories to sensations.

Yes it’s a passing thought…and there is no entity/thought/thing that the passing thought is appearing to or who is suffering.
Is this clear?

yes. the thought 'I am suffering' in actual experience there is just colour and its unaffected by the content of the thought. the colours here, the sensations here, the labels here but there isn't an actual sufferer here.

Great! Clear as a bell!

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

if you have no questions, we can move on and look at control/decisions/choices.

no further questions on the last post thanks Kay :)

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

Okay...let's have a look at control/choice/decision.

Here is an exercise.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Thanks Kay

Here is an exercise.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

I cant do the exercise without going to thought because it seems to be a thought which says the right, or the left hand will raise. I could say there is sensation+thought, as in there feels a building energy that comes prior to action when there's time before the action happening to observe it but I cant do the exercise without thought as thought says the left hand is going to raise now..and then it raises. it seems like the thought is commanding the hand. Looking and trying to look without going to thoughts...examine the actual experience...okay.

without the thought to raise either hand there's no raising hands happening. its a suggestion...to raise hands. I do not think I am understanding this question very well or am conceptualising it. please could you expand on this a little.

Looking again, I dont know. whats moving the hand? its moving but there doesnt seem to be a what there moving it as a person.

What is it that is controlling the hand?

in the above it would have to mean thought was controlling the hand, if that was what seemed to be giving the order for the hand to raise- we already went through ..thought cant control AE. Theres nothing controlling the hand, the hand moves when it moves. the though 'raise the left hand' doesnt make the left hand raise actually. like the thought i need to go to the toilet isn't actually going to the toilet.

so hands are on the table, palms down. isn't it a suggestion{thought} 'raise one of the hands'...sorry a bit stuck here Kay.

[falcontooth]

I know I didnt answer all the questions yet, I wanted to be clear on these first as they are all related to the same confusion at the moment. many thanks shelly

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

Try the following and see how you go.

Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.


Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Try the following and see how you go.

Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

ah like which came first the chicken or the egg...

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

doing the exercise..there's the narrative 'up and down' that happens simultaneously with the hand turning.

watch like a hawk...okay

there's sensation. colour/image and thought. they all seem to be there together...like if the focus shifts to the breathing the thought says i am breathing...as if breathing only just started with the thought'I am breathing' {I am doing it} but that's not really true. I'll spend more time looking into this and get back later.

Much love and thanks shelly