Durian, what brings you here?

[Ilona]

That's how it felt when I saw it first time. Language is so limited. But then it's the only one we've got. It's a tool that enables us to communicate.
And yes, it's not easy to start, but it gets better with practice. It's like starting to think for yourself for the first time. :)

So don't despair, have a go. White what you see.
How does this human thing work? What is here now and how we get trapped in the past?

Give us a rant here.
Much love.

[durian]

Hi,

Sorry for any confusion but I wanted to clear something up:
That's how it felt when I saw it first time. Language is so limited. But then it's the only one we've got. It's a tool that enables us to communicate.
When I wrote, "The words are either not there, or doing a poor job at attempting to describe something," I was not meaning that I am in a mostly wordless state, but that this is the way it is for everyone: either no words, or words appear that aren't accurate anyway. I don't want to sound further along than I am.

Today was another difficult day of not seeing, of density, of pain (which means nonstop burning sensation in much of body, jaw clenched like you wouldn't believe, etc.), of story. In fact I should be used to it by now because there are so many ups and downs, clear and then mud again, since the path began. When I write from a moment of clarity it maybe can misrepresent the whole picture because it is like a window that opens up then it shuts down again. I don't know if it will ever stay open. That is some of the despair and why I dread hearing that I'm doing well or that I'm so close. It is so painful. Maybe it is the repressed stuff dumping every time there is an opening, maybe it is something 'I do wrong,' maybe 'I am not ready,' I don't know. Wish I could just look the 'right' way and have it be over but it doesn't seem to be that easy. Certain thoughts like 'there are conflicting stories' seem to ring true and cancel a lot of pain for a time here and there. Conflicting stories, internal conflict = tension = pain.

And yes, it's not easy to start, but it gets better with practice. It's like starting to think for yourself for the first time. :)
Thank you, I looove that. This makes me smile.

So don't despair, have a go. Write what you see.
I can only write in time because I don't see it today (should I not write at all if it is in time?). But yesterday was an experience of such joy and ease, not centered around the story of 'me'. But then looking in the mirror—the sense of 'me' seeing 'myself' in the mirror as 'I' looked out through my eyes was so strongly convincing and trying to pull me back to the 'I' (much harder than when i didn't see myself in the mirror) but then even that wasn't solid like it usually is.

OK maybe I can write what I see right now. Pain and thoughts that can't be controlled away. No choice of making this pain and contracted thought happen, no choice to make it go away. Just that pain is the program running today. Mind automatically cycles through possible causes and solutions but it's all just control and I am so $%^#&*@ sick of it.

How does this human thing work? What is here now and how we get trapped in the past?
Probably not a good day to answer this. I am trapped in the past right now. :P


Give us a rant here.
Much love.
How's that for a rant? But probably not the kind of rant you meant...:P I would have waited another day to see if things turn around (again) but in the interest of honesty decided to write from the pain so that gets seen too. Love,
D

[Ilona]

Good rant.

Mind automatically cycles through possible causes and solutions but it's all just control and I am so $%^#&*@ sick of it.

What is that I that is sick of mind? Isn't that just an automatic thought also? Are there any thoughts that are not appearing automaticly? - I'm sick of it- is also a thought, is it not?

So there are thoughts arising about control. Is there a controller? Or just thoughts about it?

Another thing, seems that you expect all the negativity disolve instantly. Hm. It's not the way it works. It's seeing that there is no one owning pain and negativity. Pain is not seen as my pain, story is no longer seen as my story.

When the tension happens, get right into it and see if there is anything that owns it or is it a tension in the body impersonal.

There is something that you are avoiding to look at. What is it?

[durian]

What is that I that is sick of mind? Isn't that just an automatic thought also?
Yes it sure is.
Are there any thoughts that are not appearing automaticly?
No.
- I'm sick of it- is also a thought, is it not?
Yes. I could have reworded it differently (after all I am a professional editor) to avoid exposing that but it is so strong, this personal sense of feeling sick of being stuck. It is automatically generated but there it is. Maybe the words try to describe a very strong feeling that is real.

So there are thoughts arising about control. Is there a controller? Or just thoughts about it?
Just thoughts about it. No one in control. Every time the pain sets in, there are automatic thoughts about what 'I' did/am doing wrong and what 'I' can do (even letting go of control) to fix it (often consciousness games—'if only i were present it would dissolve'). There is not a controller but that is the pattern of automatically generated thoughts. The tension that correlates to this is a sensation that I associate with control.

Another thing, seems that you expect all the negativity disolve instantly. Hm. It's not the way it works. It's seeing that there is no one owning pain and negativity. Pain is not seen as my pain, story is no longer seen as my story.
A lot of reaction to negativity still there, I reckon that is the problem, not the negativity itself.

When the tension happens, get right into it and see if there is anything that owns it or is it a tension in the body impersonal.
No 'I' owner but there is often a concept of finding the emotion behind it, like it is hiding something that needs to be uncovered.

There is something that you are avoiding to look at. What is it?
First response is whether 'my' thoughts are true. Still believing the thoughts. Something else?

Thanks.

[Ilona]

Aha, so are any thoughts true?
What is it that makes them true?
What is that glue that holds the illusion of thoughts being real?

Can you see that thoughts at best can point to reality, but no thought is reality. Some thoughts point to real, some to imaginary. Like batman. If you watch movie about batman and in a very intense place, doesn't your body react? Is there tension and feelings of urgency and desire for positive outcome?
I/me is not real, the feeling of fear loosing me is real sensation in the body, perceived by nervous system. But thoughts about me are only thoughts- all fiction. All assumed for real. And yet thoughts and feelings ate interconnected.
can you see that story of durian creates tention in the body. No story, no tension. Or if you know that no story is real- no tension.

[durian]

Aha, so are any thoughts true?
No since they are trying to describe a feeling but are not it.

What is it that makes them true?
Not true but like you said, sometimes pointing to reality.

What is that glue that holds the illusion of thoughts being real?
Uh...I will work on this the rest of today. :)

Can you see that thoughts at best can point to reality, but no thought is reality.
Or like I think you have been saying, thoughts are real but the content of the thoughts isn't real. Like the character Durian is real but her storyline isn't.

Some thoughts point to real, some to imaginary. Like batman. If you watch movie about batman and in a very intense place, doesn't your body react? Is there tension and feelings of urgency and desire for positive outcome?
Yes and I often observe this when watching movies/TV or even listening to music, the way the formulas work to evoke certain feelings/reactions.

I/me is not real, the feeling of fear loosing me is real sensation in the body, perceived by nervous system.
Thank you thank you, that is so great to read. Makes so much sense.

can you see that story of durian creates tention in the body. No story, no tension.
Yes yes yes!!! This is regularly experienced in this body. The story creates the tension, and I felt joy on reading this and almost started dancing because it feels so true. But...

Or if you know that no story is real- no tension.
That is the hard part. The seeing that the story, the believing the thoughts, etc. creates the tension which creates the pain, that is commonly seen. But the leap from that to actually knowing no story is real so that the tension doesn't happen, that is what seems so far away!

<3

[Ilona]

It's only one step away. Admit it.
Surrender.

Stop fighting and trying to hold on to 'your' precious stories. Ask yourself, what would be lost if you would stop owning your past and your ideas about the future?

That's it.

Story= fiction.
Reality= here now. Including the fiction. Including everything.

[durian]

Happy laughter when reading your post the night before last. So simple. Then yesterday headache all day. Thoughts about how much of my life is based on lies, one on top of the other and spider-webbing everywhere, so many stacked on top of each other that it's hard to see what is real anymore.

What happens if I admit being one step away, does it help anything? It might make me even more tense. Want to surrender and stop fighting, not hold onto 'precious' stories. But wanting doesn't make it happen yet.

Ask yourself, what would be lost if you would stop owning your past and your ideas about the future?

Going around in the mind a lot is this quote by Jed McKenna,
"...the dam created an unnatural imbalance and it had to give way sooner or later. After the dam bursts, the built-up pressures are expended, the waters settle, equilibrium is restored and everything returns to its natural, harmonious, balanced state. Maybe you feel bad about the villages and crops that got decimated or the man-made lake that got drained. but whatever relied on the imbalance provided by this unnatural obstruction was always in peril: doomed from the start."

There is fear of the unknown, about what in 'my life' would collapse, would reveal itself to be 'relying on the imbalance provided by the unnatural obstruction' of lies, story, control, etc. I see this in several areas of my life story. Fear and expectation of some things in the story having to change in a very uncomfortable way, and not trusting it will be OK.

This can be said to all be story, yeah, but the thoughts point to a real feeling, maybe terror. Anyway it occupies a lot of mental energy.

<3

[Ilona]

Great quote btw.
Only you don't know when that process starts. Let's say for me it started as I read jed and all the crap started to fall with pain of loss. And when waters started to clear up I saw the no self thingy loud and clear. After that not many waves at all. At that point I had enough of lies and I surrendered by letting the doubt it. A thought passed by- hm, is there really no me at all?? and puff... very gently and subtle, but for sure.

So you don't know where you are in your process of the purge. It's not the same for everyone. And jed only can describe what he sees. I say, trust the unfolding as it is perfect for you. Stop fighting. The step is not even a step. From here to here there is no step. Only recognition.

Recognition happens. It's been happening for a while and it only gets deeper. So focus on what is true, what is now, here, this moment. And that is what is. The story, the commentary of the story is going on in imagination. By itself.

Can that be seen? Is it true?

So it

[durian]

Yeah it's true I don't know where I am in the process of the purge. And it's true Jed is only giving one perspective...

Did you miss a word here? Can't read this sentence and it seems juicy so I don't want to miss it:
At that point I had enough of lies and I surrendered by letting the doubt it.

For 'my story', letting go of the lies brings up fear for survival. Very deep fear/terror. Based on past experiences of life-threatening situations, sometimes due to poor judgment .

Feeling terror in the body today that is not associated with particular thoughts. Feels old.

You're right, there already is some recognition. But I don't know how to stop fighting. It is so ingrained in every cell. 3 years ago I went to see Adyashanti. I got up and told him some of my 'story' about how ever since my first 'glimpse' in '99, that if i was stuck in my head there was a lot of pain, and i would do this or that technique, try this or that method, engage in this or that process, and it would help for a little while but then stop working. He said this was a sign of progress and a good/fortunate place to come to, that i had been 'checkmated' (no method or technique can help me anymore) and all that was left was to let go of control (or forget his exact words). This resonated strongly at the time but it seemed like I couldn't really let it in...since then I just continued on trying to make something work to stop the pain. This is part of why my life feels like full of so many lies, everything to try to manage, including learning to professionally help others manage their pain too. So it feels like just treading water for years now.

<3

[durian]

And it's not just techniques or methods but the entire life setup, all the details, don't know how much would change if I gave up the lies. Maybe this is too much worry about what changes on the outside though. But it's all part of the mental blocks and fear around letting go.

[Ilona]

Nothing changes on the outside. Life already is whe way it is.
The change is inside- where are lies and struggle, there is nothing there. So the story that goes on is not drowning in negative commentary. That's all. There is nothing real to loose, only drop that which requires do much effort to keep
Locked and maintained.

It's like a bush, that you have to keep trimming as it covers the window and you can't see the sun. The solution is talking the root out, not keep trimming the bush. So once the bush is out it takes a bit of time to readjust, but it's not as hard as keep trimming that bush. :)

So whatever lies are in the system they are only in a way of feeling great.

When terror arises its fear of unknown. Look behind it.
And if you read some other threads you see, people say that nothing changes, but there is a shift inside.
What have you got to loose??

Ask yourself how to surrender and just surrender. If truth is what you want, open up to truth, no matter what. Cause that no matter what is only the lies that you are trying to protect from being exposed.

Much love

Ps, no that sentence does not miss anything.

[durian]

I want the root to get out, more than anything else in this world/life.

What do I have to lose? Only misery.

Today just so much tension-reaction to everything...I know there isn't a controller of this but today it doesn't help. Feel like I am putting so much energy into holding something together and I just simply don't know how to stop and let it fall apart.

To open up to truth I need to let the lies be exposed that I am trying to protect? Am pondering this. Thanks for your patience.

<3

[Ilona]

Yes, you need to see that everything that you think you know, everything how you imagine world to be may be a lie. A lie that has been taken for granted, because everyone is living the same way, thinking that they are separate.

Just stop for a second and look in real life, in actual real life as it is, is there a you at all? And stop lying to yourself.
As simple as that.

[durian]

Yes, you need to see that everything that you think you know, everything how you imagine world to be may be a lie. A lie that has been taken for granted, because everyone is living the same way, thinking that they are separate.
Reading this feels like taking a breath of fresh air after being in a really stuffy room!

Just stop for a second and look in real life, in actual real life as it is...
I have to admit I have been seeing these messages 'in time' -- like, I will read this and then watch for a day or two. Then I read other threads where people are dialoguing back and forth in the moment and seeing things. For me it's like, oh i haven't had enough time to see it yet.

is there a you at all?
There is no 'me' in charge of all these thoughts and movements and tensions and sensory perceptions going all over the place, BUT there is still a sense of a 'me' noticing that! Looking into this right now, why each sensation is not personal but still someone 'me' writing this to you, putting thoughts together, etc.

<3