The Gate

Hi Vince,

relief was felt, when i read that i'm not quite "through" yet. I had assumed that i was through because the seeking has seized and also this thought "i don't get it" is no longer appearing. Instead there is a sea of confusion now. :-)

Feeling very exhausted. At work, after two hours feelings of numbness and despair. As i wanted to leave the building for a break, i felt strong anxiety. Went back and said i had a kind of panic attack and would go home. No problem, because nothing on for today. This is a familiar pattern, but has not appeared for more than a year now. Label "panic attack" seems to justify for myself and others my leaving work early. (Also helpful because as a consequence I changed to less stressful job and work only few hours now.) After some minutes cycling outside on my way home everything was allright. At home more energy stuff with tears, but very ok. Will work only three hours instead of five the next two days. Should be ok that way. Still this thing is not solved.

Old Story: only if i have the courage to burn my bridges behind me and give up this job, freedom will be possible. If i cling to the imagined security it offers i will fall back into numbness. Great attraction to radically change this life. Do not understand people saying life post gate is pretty much the same as before. (seen from outside)
...
Feel not quite ready for these questions, but will give it a try.

Why do you think that is ?

(time being important) It is another illusion to be seen through.

Check if there is fear around the question of time ?

will do that later

When did you recognize that you were 'living out' the contents of the story ? Before ?,
during ?, or after it had finished ?

I cannot remember a before, during or after. It was like as the day grew near, the story became compelling. And it has not finished. It is all over the place.

Ok, this is a big one. From the perspective of the organism with the label Renate, What is real ? What is actual ? ..or, from that same perspective, What is NOT real/actual ?

Real is what is perceived in this moment. That is sensations of the body, what is seen, heard, smelt etc. The thoughts that are perceived. Then why is there this suffering in this moment? Must be the thoughts, but i cannot make them out, as if they don't show. So maybe it is in the body. Or emotions. But i can not name any emotion. it is not anger, not fear. Really, there is this intense suffering and i do not know where it resides or what it is. Now it passes away again. Seems to be a crucial moment, feel i need to be strong, but how can i be strong ? What "i " can be strong? there is no i. There is trembling, breathing, typing, thoughts about the suffering being as intense and incomprehensible as the joy, some music in the background, another thought about putting up a drama here, another thought about laughter, another about an illusion given much power.

What is not real seems to be real. And what is real seems to be not real. I can SEE at least that.

So exhausted, will go to sleep.
---
next morning
as soon as I lay down yesterday there was peacefulness
slept well
dream about a stack of firewood that i lighted with a gas lighter someone gave me. We were both doing it. Powerful huge flame, but lighter was soon empty.

Renate

Hi Vince,

just coming back to this question.

Check if there is fear around the question of time ?

There is a fear of being old and fragile and poor in the future and noone around who is close to me. And a fear of not seizing the chance to travel, maybe live in another country for a while as long i feel healthy and adventurous enough to do this. Again - i would have to leave the job and i would have less money when i am old. That is my story. A limiting story. Concerning the past i still feel that it could/should have been different. This stuff about predetermination hasn't yet sunk in deeply. Still feel i should be planning...

I think that dream was a hint that my energies are running low. So i will give it a break. Work was no problem today.

love
Renate

Hi Renate. How often are your stories of the future, actually accurate ?
How often have your stories of the past, actually resulted in change ?

I think that dream was a hint that my energies are running low. So i will give it a break.

Do you mean, give this a break ?

vince

Hi Vince,

How often are your stories of the future, actually accurate ?

Hmm, some of them might have been accurate, by chance, but as there are so many of them and i cannot even remember them, it is so obvious that they are meaningless.

How often have your stories of the past, actually resulted in change ?

Never ever...
Now, how do i stop this? Just stop it? Always going back to the now when a story emerges.

Do you mean, give this a break ?

Oh no, NO!
I meant, just going easy for today, but as you see, I already am at it again.
I did have a break though, watching TV with a glass of wine but i soon felt bored and numb. No way this way.
Always feel this urge to do something, to try instead of trusting. Impatience.

Thank you Vince
Renate

P.S.: Idea came up to translate Lisa's interview into German. What do you think about it?

this seems to be a kind of crisis. in a dream i found myself in a dark cellar that frightenend me. Then thinking about the murders in Paris. And personal anxieties about old age and being alone coming up strongly. Connection to what we are doing here not felt. Yesterday's remark of giving it a break might have pointed to that.

But i will not give up. It is a difficult patch. it has no substance. it is just part of a dream. i will not give it so much importance. But i do. i am amazed as well at the strenght this has.
Looking at this with interest and amazement seems to help because it includes a distance.
Maybe this also helps to clean out feelings of achievement: "i did it!" and pride.
I will just take it as it comes, as it comes, as it comes...

gratitude is felt for you reading this

Renate

Oh no, NO!

Ah, excellent. You had me worried for a moment.
Sometimes the closer we get the greater the (unconscious) resistance is. We are, after all, facing the metaphorical death of an idea that has served (if not very well) for the better part of your life.
Onward. Further.

anxieties about old age and being alone coming up strongly

When these ideas arise and the accompanying emotions (anxieties etc) hijack the body, is there ever any awareness that this is a habit ?
Now, think about this for at least an hour before answering it... What might be the reward for this behaviour ?

it is just part of a dream.

This is an excellent way of looking at it.
Of course we only know that we were dreaming when we wake up. To presume that this is a dream can deliver much freedom. Anything is possible in a dream. (anything is possible in (so called) real life too)
That "distance", is an objectivity. It enables you to see the process, and not be completely lost in the content.

I will just take it as it comes, as it comes, as it comes...

..and if "as it comes" includes the stuff that you don't want ?

Idea came up to translate Lisa's interview into German. What do you think about it?

excellent idea. (just don't let it take over your focus at the moment) Your awakening and Lisas' will not be the same. Everybody brings unique life experiences and conditioning to this.

how do i stop this? Just stop it?

No. If you had control and could just stop it, wouldn't you have done this a long time ago ?
Just watch it and welcome it as an expression of conditioning and feel happy that these neuronal pathways are being re-written.

Always feel this urge to do something, to try instead of trusting. Impatience.

Here's a haiku that arose for me when i was in a similar place;
i do, i don't do.
i watch it all then accept,
i do, i don't do.

and another that seems relevant;
'It is as it is'.
There is nothing i can do
that's not 'as it is'.

..and here is one for Renate;
The exquisite pain,
wanting relief to happen now.
Will it ever end ?

love

vince

Hi Vince,

thank you, this was so encouraging. And special thanks for the Haikus. I like this expression "exquisite pain". Makes it appear less sinister.

Today, as i was cycling to work this thought "i don't know anything at all" came up and stayed there to be pondered. And i felt somehow crushed but still ok with this, being stripped of all knowledge. At least it was like hitting some ground. Then i turned my attention back to perceiving. I was cycling along a small canal and on the water i noticed this red umbrella, upside down, handle peeking up. It was half filled with water and it just floated there coming in my direction. I stopped and watched and took some photographs and finally it came to the edge of the water near me. It was like the most wonderful gift. And this image is so deep. Being turned upside down, being free of purpose/conditioning, being filled with the same stuff that you are floating in. Hours later, on my way home, the umbrella was still there, but now it rained. It rained into the umbrella, can you imagine?

When these ideas arise and the accompanying emotions (anxieties etc) hijack the body, is there ever any awareness that this is a habit ?

Yes, there is an awareness that this is a habit and also about the futility of it. But it happens all the same.

Now, think about this for at least an hour before answering it... What might be the reward for this behaviour ?

At first there were ideas like: with these worries i am somehow in tune with the mainstream society, as nearly everybody does it.
But later this came up, strange as it seems: The reward could be that I might be right in the end. (Like in: Haha, , i knew it all along that this life would end in misery, and see how i was right!) Ouch. What a distortion. (Some relief and amusement is felt.)

..and if "as it comes" includes the stuff that you don't want ?

Yes, i wanted to express a willingness to take it as it comes. Whatever.

Feel somehow on track again.

love
Renate

G'day Renate.

being stripped of all knowledge.

Say more on this. (it is a crucial point)

being free of purpose/conditioning, being filled with the same stuff that you are floating in.

..and this (say more)
i get the analogy, but i wonder if you get the brilliance of it.
Is it possible that it is literal ?

there is an awareness that this is a habit and also about the futility of it. But it happens all the same.

If it is seen as it happens, then it is unlikely that it will continue to have the same strength and frequency.
Have you noticed this about it, or are you only noticing that it occurs ?

Some relief and amusement is felt.

Expand on this too.

Feel somehow on track again.

Good stuff. ..although, even when you don't feel "on track", you still are. (as long as you don't quit) There is an old buddhist saying that says something like Once you put your foot on the path, following it to the end is inevitable.

Real is what is perceived in this moment. That is sensations of the body, what is seen, heard, smelt etc. The thoughts that are perceived.

Yes, yes. Excellent.
When you say that "the thoughts that are perceived", it is obvious that you are experiencing a thought. What is not so obvious is that the content of that very real thought is pure concept. A real thought that consists of references to something.
Thought is always about something. It is never the thing itself. So even if we are experiencing a thought about what we are experiencing (and most thoughts are not), it is still about that experiencing.
So my question is; What thoughts deserve credibility ?

vince

Hi dear Vince,

being stripped of all knowledge

all this life has been used to acquire knowledge, knowledge has been used to find a position in society, a position in the world, a position in relation to this person Renate, a position towards other people. Opinions have been formed, opinions have changed, opinions were dropped. I was a clever child and learned to identify with this cleverness. All this is breaking down and the possibility seen, that all this is nothing, these opinions are just opinions and as good or bad as everybody else's opinions. This Renate is just like all the other people, not better, not worse. Just realizing that i never knew a thing, it was all made up, all stories and opinions. Storytelling is still going on but now there seems to be a willingness to admit that maybe i just don't know anything at all. Like an ant that admits that it doesn't know anything about the world. There is a relief in admitting this, an opening to whatever is showing up.

..and this (say more)
i get the analogy, but i wonder if you get the brilliance of it.
Is it possible that it is literal ?

i find it hard to spell out what i see in this image. The upright umbrella corresponds to the human being living in illusion. Its function is protection against water/life. It doesn't know any other possible way of being. Then it is turned upside down, can no longer fullfill this function and it becomes a vessel filled with water/life and with no other purpose than floating along on the very stuff it is filled with. In a way it seizes to exist. It is only a form moving along the stream, holding water in water, life in life. And being held.
Are we just this?

there is an awareness that this (fretting about the future) is a habit

If it is seen as it happens, then it is unlikely that it will continue to have the same strength and frequency.Have you noticed this about it, or are you only noticing that it occurs ?

It does not occur too frequently these days, but when it does, it is quite strong. Or maybe i see it more clearly than before. This relief and amusement showed up as i was closely examining this habit and trying to find out the rewards. And what was found seemed so ridiculous. This looking closely and pondering seems to have this effect. But as you predicted, it took its time!

Your last question about thoughts is one of those that i don't understand yet. But unlike before i don't feel so confused. I only notice that i don't get what you mean. No problem. I will look at it again tomorrow.

Now wonderful resting...

love
Renate

now there seems to be a willingness to admit that maybe i just don't know anything at all.

Excellent. There is a great freedom in this.
What is the difference between knowing and believing ?
Is knowing more than a believing ? Is one cultural and the other personal ?
Does not knowing, leave you in awe of what comes into your perception ? Does it open up possibilities as yet not seen ? (Here, life-ing is Wonder Full - even the crap is amazing when seen from this perspective.)
Are beliefs just thoughts that have a 'special' label ? Do they have a subscript that says we won't question them ?
Are they thoughts that we have given permission to be acted on without consciousness ?
Of course, we would be overwhelmed if we had to consider every assumption before we did anything. This leads us to behave as if certain beliefs are correct. Is it these beliefs that we call knowledge ?

We will come back to the umbrella analogy. It's a little early to get into it yet.

Your last question about thoughts...

eagerly awaiting your response to this.

love

vince

G'day Vince,

now back to your question:

What thoughts deserve credibility?

I made a drawing, trying to understand better what this is about. I do understand that a thought is real but its content not. Its content is only referring to something real or unreal (unicorn). You are asking about credibility. What thoughts should be believed, accepted as true?
Confusion. There seem to be two ways of thinking about that. One from a philosophical and one from a personal perspective. So from my own perspective and experience, are there any thoughts that deserve credibility? Can the content of a thought be true? Yes. The content of this thought: there is typing happening now. Seems to be true. Also: it is raining outside. (i suspect that as i answer this way, i am not getting what you want to show me.)
Or maybe my examples are not thoughts but perceptions. Ok. That must be it.
So if i choose this one: it rained yesterday. i cannot say that it is true as my memory of yesterday's rain is also a thought and then one thought would give credibility to another.
Now this comes up: Are there perceptions that deserve credibility? No, because perceiving is limited and influenced by conditioning. So there is nothing at all that deserves credibility. Ok. So this thought: i don't know anything at all is all that is left. At least this one can be believed.
i feel this is getting into philosophy again. What i don't get is why this is so important.
In daily life we always act on beliefs. But this is not about daily life.

Just lost a long passage about stuff that happened today. Some computer problem. Grrr.
I will send this off and come back later.

now second attempt... i told you there has been a split between my sister and i. Today a letter from her husband arrived. Body reacted even before opening it. He was asking for money, as my brother who died in May 2013 still owed money to the housing company. Small amount that should be paid by my sister and me. Seemed ok. But still more physical reaction that was seen as old conditioning felt as grudge. Sat down to work it through with MET/EFT technique. (Tapping the body on several places while repeating the sentence that names the uncomfortable emotions.) worked well. No grudge left, just the feeling i don't understand her. Later some more old grudges appeared, all connected to specific issues. All of them about money or posessions/heritage stuff. Worked them all through. No grudges left.

I know she believes i treated her unjustly. Here too is the belief she treated me unjustly. But still the idea is left that i am right and she is wrong. I know this cannot be so. But it is felt this way. i just cannot look at it from another perspective. What makes it more difficult: she really is perceived by most people as pain in the neck. Ok, now something is dawning on me. It is a question about righteousness. She is a very righteous person, always campaigning for victims of all sorts, and she herself takes herself to be a victim. She would never admit being wrong about any issue. Must be something in me that is reflected here. Maybe i am just as righteous as she, only not parading with it. A silent one. Silent righteousness. Even worse than her obvious one.
Shit. Shit. Shit.
Ok. That was that. What to do? Nothing. Just letting it sink in. What a joke.
I don't even know if this stuff belongs here at all. Let me know if not.
Have some chewing to do now. Or just looking.

(See, it was good to have lost that first attempt!)

Enough for today. Will consider questions about belief/knowledge later.

Renate

P.S.: Just want to add that i am amazed again about the power and ease of the process. Feeling still baffled, but light. Laughing, too.

i am amazed again

Well, get used to "amazed". Life-ing is amazing. It is (transforming into) perception from (a new) perspective. (ha, i feel a haiku coming on)

I know she believes i treated her unjustly.

Although it's probable, it can't be known. Therefore it is a belief. Even if she stated it directly, you can't know the nuances. (and she probably isn't aware enough to know them either)
Ok, this is a good example of what i was asking about which thoughts deserve credibility.
The thing with thoughts is, that although there content is always concept, we react to them.
So if we consider the broad categories of thoughts to be 1/ useful 2/ entertainment 3/ rubbish, then we can allocate them according to the response that they elicit. So when you say that you know she feels that you treated her unjustly, it the response defensive ?
What if you changed the statement to (something like) "Things are not harmonious between us." ? What would be the response to that ?
Although it may not resolve the 'situation', it removes the victim/victor reactions. (which may lead to resolution)

Must be something in me that is reflected here.

Now that is useful thinking !

I don't even know if this stuff belongs here at all. Let me know if not.

Everything belongs.

See, it was good to have lost that first attempt!

Ha, yes. More useful thinking.

That haiku;
A new perception,
seen from a new perspective,
results in Wonder.

love

vince