Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

[Gunasara]

is there a difference between "a sense of choice" or "choosing is happening"?

[Gunasara]

is there anybody watching 'choice' happening?...

[Mettasattva]

No...choosing is happening...

and...not that I know of though choosing is happening...

[Gunasara]

your seeing seems pretty clear... and I would like to continue testing from different angles... thinking is very tricksy and can masquerade as clarity when that is what is being called for...

so if you can sit in awareness... I would like you to have a look at what you wrote a few days ago

I don't think these questions are working...However I look at this I am not seeing what u guys think I should be. I don't have difficulty with the concept of no self or the concept of imperminance. However I still have the experience or a sense of something having the experience and these questions are not helping me see beyond that. If there even is a beyond that.

To just SAY I don't exist or there isn't a me here doesn't really feel true because there is something whatever that is...who or what are u aiming these questions at?

Are talking to urself? A friend that's done this just said there is no u, which is stupid because ultimatly there may not be a perminate me however in this time/space reality there is a body and mind and the body seems to guide the direction I go in. So there is clearly something else going on...it's not as simple as lying about whether I exist or not.

So if it's all just happening what is guiding me to continue this with u and why haven't I just stopped? why don't I just kill myself? why don't I just start killing everybody? there's no choice apparently, so why am I not doing that?

So after all this, my direct experience tells me that this body and mind are alive for now and although I can't pinpoint where a me is, there is a sense of something choosing, wanting, clinging...

I can not see that I do not exist!

has anything changed since you wrote this?

how would you express this now?

does reading this bring up doubt (which is thinking)?

why don't you start killing everybody?

[Mettasattva]

Yes...

The above is written with focus on content...now, choice is happening, thinking is happening...

Yes...

Beacause the choice that is happening isn't choosing to do so...

[Gunasara]

can you say confidently that there is no self whatsoever in direct experience?

[Mettasattva]

Yes...It's only in thinking...

[Gunasara]

what is the illusion of "self"? In your experience, how does it work? how does it begin?
Please describe as fully as possible.

[Gunasara]

why do I need to describe anything? I don't know when it all begain, that's in the past...I don't get this....sorry!

who doesn't get this?

if you have seen clearly you should be able to begin to LOOK and find answers to these questions...

are you still able to dwell in direct experience or is thinking taking over again?

selfing can continue long after going through the 'gate' but it doesn't imply any kind of real 'self'... it will usually be seen for what it is quite swiftly...

describe your experience... use labels but help me to see where you are at by using the labels to describe what you see...

[Gunasara]

ha... if i'm using the blessed 'should' word then I am probably misunderstanding...

I guess I don't understand... is there resistance to writing?... are you dwelling in an open space and don't feel the need to speak from there?... are you content that you have seen and do not feel any need to investigate further...

as I sit here tapping keys... some kind of wanting is happening... some kind of story here...

speak when or if you are ready...

confusion has arisen here...

fingers tap tap tap... sad feelings... and shrieks from the tv room as the boys play...

speak later.

[Mettasattva]

No I don’t think u do understand. In all the guiding there is one place I get stuck, when asked to describe my experience, to crab the mic and tell the world how I see it. Whilst doing this practice things slow down, to see clearly things are very slowed down. Thinking labels this zone as “Pleasant”, “relaxing” sensations arise. When everything is slowed down lots of things are happening, thought is happening (and much less when things are slow), seeing is happening, hearing is happening, sensation is happening. In fact, in that zone it’s mostly sensation. Then the thought “describe” happens. All to quickly, quicker than can even be perceived, lots more thinking is happening. The “selfing” begins again. Whislt the thinking is happening sensation is also happening, thinking labels it “unpleasant”. Then I’m that self that everything happens to again for a time (much less time since doing this practice. Coming back to the present does happen more swiftly). Getting back in the slow zone, I try the process again, with similar results.

[Gunasara]

great answer... thank you...

Then the thought “describe” happens. All to quickly, quicker than can even be perceived, lots more thinking is happening. The “selfing” begins again. Whislt the thinking is happening sensation is also happening, thinking labels it “unpleasant”. Then I’m that self that everything happens to again for a time (much less time since doing this practice. Coming back to the present does happen more swiftly). Getting back in the slow zone, I try the process again, with similar results.

when you are "that self that everything happens to"... is there a 'self' anywhere...

if not... what is happening...

please describe...

[Gunasara]

and can you help me understand what 'validation' means to you?

is there someone who is 'validated'?

is there someone doing the 'validating'?...

[Mettasattva]

“when you are "that self that everything happens to"... is there a 'self' anywhere...”

There must still be a belief that there is, why else all the pain? I must still be believing the story that I don’t get it… though I can see that it is just happening, I’m not choosing to get stuck, it’s just happening…

“if not... what is happening... please describe...”

I’ve done that above…

“and can you help me understand what 'validation' means to you?”

No, I can’t help u understand, clearly, it’s been two months-ish since starting this.

is there someone who is 'validated'?

Only the same “who” u are directing these questions at…

“is there someone doing the 'validating'?...”

It’s certainly seems like u guys are waiting for me to describe how it is for me, that does seem to be what is happening…

[Gunasara]

There must still be a belief that there is, why else all the pain? I must still be believing the story that I don’t get it… though I can see that it is just happening, I’m not choosing to get stuck, it’s just happening…

do you expect the pain to go away when you drop the belief in a separate self... expectation=thinking of a future... come back to the present... type and describe your experience... can you find the pain?... is there a label you can find called 'pain'... is it a thought, sensation...

it’s been two months-ish since starting this

can you directly find 'two months-ish'...

is there someone who is 'validated'?

Only the same “who” u are directing these questions at…

great... i see words on a screen...i see images of your face in my thinking... i type... there are no separate selves... writing is happening

“is there someone doing the 'validating'?...”

It’s certainly seems like u guys are waiting for me to describe how it is for me, that does seem to be what is happening…

are 'we guys' selves... do you have an image in your mind of 'we guys'... do you have a word story about 'we/u guys'... can you directly find 'us'...


and yes, please describe how it is for you...