good place

[graceabounds]

Everything comes to the surface.

Left leg knows whats up. It just is.

I feel some parts of me are so unable to rest, and so tired

Is it a part of you unable to rest? Or just… thoughts?

Are you responsible for the content of thoughts?

[daisyrain]

Is it a part of you unable to rest? Or just… thoughts?

I don’t know how to separate this really.
It feels like something that is very much there, but „I find it difficult to get in contact with“

I find...

I could tell you a lot of "yeah, but..." and I wonder to what extend I can just be fed up with that (and to what extend I'd just avoid something)

it does feel like part of me is unable to rest. Or there is something unable to rest.
E.g. some days there seems to be great value in just asking the tiredness stuff. Like: What are you here for? What do you want? What do you want to say?

Right here, right now, there's nothing labeled tiredness or unable to rest.

Are you responsible for the content of thoughts?

Okay, I think I need to do this the dumb way and see, what that means.

There comes a thought of nature "I need to look *somewhere* (to answer this)"

There is something that does feel like an assumption. It is a bit weird, but I wanna ask, what it wants here. Oh now we're getting somewhere. There is quite a strong bodily sensation occurring after a while.

It's fun I can feel that assumption and ask the question o responsibilities for thought again. And then the assumption is just something that is felt. So there is nothing telling me that I have responsibility for thought.

[daisyrain]

do you think this is a good practice?:
Asking for every thought that feels true, where it feels true in the body

[graceabounds]

I do, yes.

Though I will add a layer… and that is, does ‘true’ feel pleasant or unpleasant? Expansive or contracted?

[daisyrain]

we passed 2^10 = 1024 posts!
I think the LU record is 75 pages.


There is an assumption here, that I must be doing something wrong, that I must be overlooking something everyone else seems to grok, and after seeing that everything will happen very quickly. As if "everyone is else" is actually doing the work, and I'm just roleplaying,.

Expansive or contracted?

when first noticed it feels contracted, when attention has settled on the sensation (that feels like truth) it feels expansive.

pleasant or unpleasant

this one is more difficult. It's distinctly a surprise to consider the possibility it could be pleasant and not "a task that has to done"

[graceabounds]

Truth in the body is always expansive.

Lies in the body is the opposite.

So now, reading this several times to yourself:
‘There is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be’

What does the body say?

[graceabounds]

Also…

What is the payoff to comparing page counts?

Who gets fed?

Who is in ownership of it?

Is it truth or lies in the body? Food or poison?

[daisyrain]

So now, reading this several times to yourself:

‘There is no separate self at all, never has been, never will be’

What does the body say?

immediate drowning sensation (that can be survived and sat with)

avoidance happened. coming back.
eyes "hang" on the "no separate self" text part.
expanding feeling here.
jittering.
feeling like "holding your breath for a while" in the chest
Arms+Hands make a motion as if protecting from that. (interpretation might play a role here).
Capacity to read that sentence with relaxation found.
Some stuff happening the ego really enjoys.

The body feels very expansive reading this.

[daisyrain]

What is the payoff to comparing page counts?

I DONT KNOOO, I'M JUST INSECURE. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHAHHHHH
hofewligfewgiluefwghjds

Who gets fed [up]?

There are thought images of a someone, alright.
There's tension, unowned.
Thought: "It bugs me so much, to have only blink-of-an-eye moments of seeing this (unowned nature)"

I can say for sure that there is a feeling of being fed up here.

When retracting into, ahm, relaxing and not finding a self, there regularly somes this self image, very much self-pittying, of someone "burdened". Very theatrical ego here.

Who is in ownership of it?

this one just feels intense in the body to try to answer.
left food has stuff to say.

Is it truth or lies in the body? Food or poison?

It expands and it feels like taking things out of my hand. There is no doubt of it being natural.
It is food for the soul, or what ever it is.
Yet there is such shying away from it / avoiding it..?
It's not "me" who is pulling away from it, but it happens. It's a rather stressed movement.
There's an assumption that
"If I could just do this practice right and focus right, I'd enter that space again." Forcefully almost.

Ah fuck this, I'm so done with myself.
That's a strange sentiment to write and mention, but it feels revealing.



---



so, i wondered.
lets imagine, id find awakening, enlightenment, all that jazz, but never knew it.
that sort of feels complex.
there's something a bit sad about imaginening still seeking then, and still... still having this promise that I'm not done yet, there is something yet to attain. There is something of great value, that I just... have to... that is really important to be seen.
I would feel that if I gave up to early, that would be a great loss.
this might be very convoluted. it's hard for me to feel into and put into words.

[graceabounds]

Lets imagine… nothing at all is different.
Everything is the same, still happens, moves, etc.

Just… unowned.

Not personal.

What then? Can the seeker give up the vision of the grand destination?

there regularly somes this self image, very much self-pittying, of someone "burdened"

Ah. Yes. Would have to give that up though too.

And all of it. ‘Addict’ ‘failure’ and ‘perceptive’ ‘intelligent’ ‘brave’ or ‘thoughtful’. It is all a bucket of gooey sticky identification.

to have only blink-of-an-eye moments of seeing this (unowned nature)

Isn’t that enough to know it is true? To see through it?

The body feels very expansive reading this.

Because it is true.

Are any of the other self-referential adjectives ‘true’ in the body?


Please go through this exercise again, paying attention to the expansion and contraction in the body.

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”. For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just
a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

[daisyrain]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The first ten minute run felt like it had a layer of tension on top.
The second one felt a bit less stiff and more sensual really.

The thought comes up "I preferred the second run".
That sentence feels less... "forced" without the "i"

2. What is here without labels?

lots of thoughts, a movement to try and try and try to answer this.
Bodily sensations. Thoughts. Hearing. Wait. is hearing actually here, or just what is heard? (No hearing)
Color. Body sensation. Nagging thoughts. Wait. Nagging is a label.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Thought wants to say: "They hide / overshadow the experience".
Thought: "I don't know" ("Don't know" does feel like a layer of tension less. less artificial)

Well, thoughts are here as well. It does feel like you can't experience that, which was just labeled.



oh, there's an assumption that the buddha must have feel unbelievably serene and amazing.

[daisyrain]

to have only blink-of-an-eye moments of seeing this (unowned nature)

Isn’t that enough to know it is true? To see through it?

but if it's not available now, what good is it?

Something does want... argue that.

Just unowned. Not personal.
What then? Can the seeker give up the vision of the grand destination?

Sensation at times labeled "I don't know" is present.

[graceabounds]

but if it's not available now, what good is it?

Something does want... argue that.

Haha of course because LOOKING would threaten the existence/validity/credibility of that which always argues, out of time…

What good is there right now? That’s all there is.

Wait. is hearing actually here, or just what is heard? (No hearing)

:)

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Whatever it is, I'll just refer to it as 'what can be heard'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?
2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?
3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

What do you find?
Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

[daisyrain]

Lots of avoidance around answering this question.
Really, a lot.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

Just sound
Still, let me check, what "hearing" actually is (calling it a concept would feel lazy. How does a concept feel..?)
the thought of "Hearing" is felt as sensation of skin/face. Sensation throughout body as well.

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

A body sensation comes as response.
it's like this is hard on the body. Heavier breathing, strong sensation of weight and tension.
But nothing "doing the hearing" can be done.

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

wait, interesting.
great avoidance

ah, Becc. why is this "so difficult"?

Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

It's thought, isn't it?
Well, body sensation + thought. (which might just be thought sensation, i dont know)


...


why is this so difficult?
feels like there's a movement of taking great care not to *really* look.

[daisyrain]

i wanted to take a moment to say "thank you".
that exercise about "describing sensations without saying 'I'" feels like it really helped.
Right now the thought came of "I feel very hurt".
That thought just comes occasionally.
The experienced felt more bearable when that thoght was reframed as "hurt is felt".
That made the underlying sensation much more approachable.