denise is ready

[denise]

hi diana,

Can you find where is the limit between what generated the sound and your body/ear/brain perceiving it? Or are the sound, hearing and the hearer undivided?

i am so used to thinking that sound comes in at the ears. i feel/hear the laptop hum as it sits on my legs. about what is which - sound, hearer, hearing i can only refer back to experiencing a sound(s) with my whole body. part of my difficulty in experiencing sound right now is that i am very aware of body sensations - buzzing, heaviness, muscle tension, perhaps because it is relatively quiet right now.

Look what you find behind thoughts. Look if your senses can give you evidence of a “you” .When you focus on your senses can you see how the limits blur?

ever experienced a gong bath? that sound doesn't just blur the edges of me it travels right through me. that's actually the cool part of it i realize now, that the belief in a barrier between skin/sound dissolves. sound is experienced flowing through my whole body.
thanks, d

[DianaM]

Hi Denise,

"the fear i mentioned of allowing myself to merge with nature. this feeling of distance with nature and hesitance to be consumed by nature has been with me the last few years since i figured out that my 'oneness experience' that i told you about in the beginning of this inquiry came through seeing and appreciating nature"
"i want to say that there is a fear of being swallowed up. (i'm laughing at that, i think that fear is real isn't it? the separation gets swallowed up)"

Now i want you to look at the fear, to contact it and fully face it.
Imagine you are at the forest walking, then suddenly the familiar limits start to blur and you have no idea where the forest start and you end, suddenly you don’t feel the “limits of Denise” anymore. What comes up when you imagine this…? Stay with the raw sensations for a while. Do you remember the fear technique I mentioned before, I want you to observe this old fear following these questions.

-Describe the physical sensations, where in the body can you find it?
-Feel this fear fully, feel the resistance allow it to be.
-Describe the scary thoughts it brings
-Notice the fear, thank it for trying to protect and “ask it for permission” to look closer.
-Ask the fear: What are you protecting? let me look! Stay silent for a while. What is being protected???

ever experienced a gong bath? that sound doesn't just blur the edges of me it travels right through me. that's actually the cool part of it i realize now, that the belief in a barrier between skin/sound dissolves. sound is experienced flowing through my whole body.

Does the skin separates experience between inner and outer? Do YOU have a body?

[denise]

hi diana,

Now i want you to look at the fear, to contact it and fully face it.... I want you to observe this old fear following these questions.

of course, the fear we spoke about seems gone. i sat with nature for a long time today and all that comes up is wanting to 'merge', longing to see.

Imagine you are at the forest walking, then suddenly the familiar limits start to blur and you have no idea where the forest start and you end, suddenly you don’t feel the “limits of Denise” anymore. What comes up when you imagine this…? Stay with the raw sensations for a while. Do you remember the fear technique I mentioned before...
-Describe the physical sensations, where in the body can you find it?
-Feel this fear fully, feel the resistance allow it to be.
-Describe the scary thoughts it brings
-Notice the fear, thank it for trying to protect and “ask it for permission” to look closer.
-Ask the fear: What are you protecting? let me look! Stay silent for a while. What is being protected???

what comes up? wonder, peace, spaciousness, merging, a feeling that this body is much larger and more spread out/porous, meshed with nature. there is no fear and no resistance, no caring if the body/denise does not reappear in solid 3d.

Does the skin separates experience between inner and outer? Do YOU have a body?

yes, i still have a me and a body. today i spent hours with the mountain and the sky and the bird sounds. i did not always entirely feel separate, just subtle moments of more of a connection than usual. i almost feel that if i could turn and look over my shoulder fast enough i could See.
denise

[DianaM]

Hello Denise!

of course, the fear we spoke about seems gone. i sat with nature for a long time today and all that comes up is wanting to 'merge', longing to see.

Could you observe it before it was gone? What happened to this fear? What was it? What was being protected by it?

i sat with nature for a long time today and all that comes up is wanting to 'merge', longing to see.

Are you ever separarate? Are things merged when you are experiencing this and separate after the experience passed??

no caring if the body/denise does not reappear in solid 3d

Does the body has to dissapear for truth to be seen?? does the body existence means that the "i" exists??

"I still have a me and a body"

Does this body have to dissolve in order to notice the truth about this "limits" this "i" and this illusion? What is this thing that you mention that has a body? What is this “inside” and “outside” boundary that divides “Denise” here from “nature” or “the world” that is “out there”?

More techniques related to this...

4) Drink a glass of water, do it very slowly, notice the sensations of drinking it, can you tell where’s the separation between you and the water
-while you drink it
-when it’s passing through your throat,
-Or can you point at the exact place where the water you just drank is divided from "your" stomach after you drank it?

5) Breathe in, then hold your breath for a while, as long as you can. Then let the air out, after that take a deep breath. can the body physically work without a connection with the "outside"?

Take a deep and slow breath, feel the air coming in, then let it out, feel the air going out. Repat for a couple of minutes while you observe.
Where is the separation when you breathe?

Keep looking, you're doing great!!
This that i point to, this truth is as simple as breathing and drinking water. But it has been ignored!

[denise]

diana,

Could you observe it before it was gone? What happened to this fear? What was it? What was being protected by it?

i had observed the fear. it was more about how i would get along in the world when i was 'high' on oneness or whatever experience was coming, like how would i go to work and not laugh and cry at totally inappropriate times. so what was being protected was how people view me. for a number of reasons none of this applies anymore ;).

Are you ever separarate? Are things merged when you are experiencing this and separate after the experience passed??

it's a figure of speech. while i sat i realized that yes, i am always merged and never separate, however there is a veil that keeps me from 'seeing' the Truth.

Does this body have to dissolve in order to notice the truth about this "limits" this "i" and this illusion? What is this thing that you mention that has a body? What is this “inside” and “outside” boundary that divides “Denise” here from “nature” or “the world” that is “out there”?

no, the illusion can be seen through while there is a body. the inside/outside belief is the veil.
what is this thing that has a body? hm, Truth/the universe/all that is are some names for it.

Does the body has to dissapear for truth to be seen?? does the body existence means that the "i" exists??

nope and nope.

i will have to wait til morning to do the exercises.
i am writing down the above questions because they are a good reminder for me.
thanks so much,
denise

[denise]

hi diana,

4) Drink a glass of water, do it very slowly, notice the sensations of drinking it, can you tell where’s the separation between you and the water
-while you drink it
-when it’s passing through your throat,
-Or can you point at the exact place where the water you just drank is divided from "your" stomach after you drank it?

i feel the cool water in my mouth and going down my throat and entering my stomach. there is a very distinct temperature difference and yes i feel it distinctly until it hits my stomach. then i can feel it sloshing around in my stomach though i loose the temperature difference. but after just a few minutes i don't feel it so much. there is never an exact separation.

5) Breathe in, then hold your breath for a while, as long as you can. Then let the air out, after that take a deep breath. can the body physically work without a connection with the "outside"?
Take a deep and slow breath, feel the air coming in, then let it out, feel the air going out. Repat for a couple of minutes while you observe.
Where is the separation when you breathe?/quote]
hm, i am beginning to feel/understand that the body is part of all that is, not separate. there has been an understanding of how much the belief in separateness of body has contributed to all beliefs in separateness.
when i breathe the breath is felt entering the throat and the lungs are felt to expand.
there are beginning to be pictures in my head of connectedness, especially where the body is concerned. it's nice to get 'out of the head' and into the body that is feeling less like stick figures in a child's drawing and more like paisley swirls among a never-ending pattern of paisley swirls.
thanks, d
thanks, denise

[DianaM]

Denise, excellent observations!!

You wrote in your last reply:

"yes, i still have a me and a body."

Could you explain more about this?

“it's a figure of speech. while i sat i realized that yes, i am always merged and never separate, however there is a veil that keeps me from 'seeing' the Truth.”

“no, the illusion can be seen through while there is a body. the inside/outside belief is the veil.”

“hm, i am beginning to feel/understand that the body is part of all that is, not separate. there has been an understanding of how much the belief in separateness of body has contributed to all beliefs in separateness.”

Can you find this veil or separation as something else that is not a belief?

"what is this thing that has a body? hm, Truth/the universe/all that is are some names for it. "
"“there is never an exact separation.”

Is there a separate universe that owns a separate body? One object owning another object? Where are the limits in reality, in All that is?

“it's nice to get 'out of the head' and into the body that is feeling less like stick figures in a child's drawing and more like paisley swirls among a never-ending pattern of paisley swirls.”

It looks like you are looking at direct experience, behind the content of thoughts, very well!! I enjoyed reading these last replies.

i had observed the fear. it was more about how i would get along in the world when i was 'high' on oneness or whatever experience was coming, like how would i go to work and not laugh and cry at totally inappropriate times. so what was being protected was how people view me. for a number of reasons none of this applies anymore ;).

Well observed!!! Can you find a real “you” that needs to be protected by fear or is it protecting a belief in a “you”?

[denise]

hello diana,

You wrote in your last reply:
"yes, i still have a me and a body."
Could you explain more about this?

in rereading this earlier post of yours...

Does the skin separates experience between inner and outer? Do YOU have a body?

i find a new answer: no, the skin does not create a separate inner and outer, it is all one thing. there is a body here typing this that is part of that one thing.

Can you find this veil or separation as something else that is not a belief?

no. a belief in separation is not true, it is just an old habit of belief.

Is there a separate universe that owns a separate body? One object owning another object? Where are the limits in reality, in All that is?

the body is part of the all, moving through and with and in allness. there is only one object - the all, everything is one thing.

Can you find a real “you” that needs to be protected by fear or is it protecting a belief in a “you”?

i feel confusion when you ask this question. i'm not sure what a 'you' looks like so i find it hard to look for. can you describe what 'you' looks like or acts like? this is a real question, i'm not trying to be cute.
thanks, denise

[DianaM]

Hello Denise, sorry about answering so late, I had a busy weekend with no calmed moment to sit and reply, anyway… i’m back here.

"i find a new answer: no, the skin does not create a separate inner and outer, it is all one thing. there is a body here typing this that is part of that one thing."
"no. a belief in separation is not true, it is just an old habit of belief."
"the body is part of the all, moving through and with and in allness. there is only one object - the all, everything is one thing."

WOW! well observed!! Keep looking in this way, definitely moving in the direction of this investigation!

i feel confusion when you ask this question. i'm not sure what a 'you' looks like so i find it hard to look for. can you describe what 'you' looks like or acts like? this is a real question, i'm not trying to be cute.
thanks, denise

Let’s make a little summary about all we have been observing here.

First, how are you feeling about this investigation now?

What i mean when I ask what is this i is the same question asked in many different ways. It’s what all this is about.

What is this “i”????...

Is the i the thinker of thoughts?
Is the i the feeler of feelings?
Is the i the doer of actions?
Is the i the this body you see when you look at the mirror?
Is the i the brain or any other organ in the body?
Is the i the owner of this body?
Is the i the decider or controller of “your life”?
Is the i the owner of “your life”?
Is the i the experiencer of experiences?
Is the i something real behind language, something else than the 9th letter of the alphabet?
Is the i something real behind a language label?
Is the i your emotional reactions?
Is this i the observer making this investigation happen or the seeker that started it?
Is the i the hearer of sounds, the looker behind these 2 holes in your head, the taster of flavors, the smeller of smells, what experiences the texture of what is touched?

We have already looked for this i everywhere, where is it? Have you found it yet? If it is a so relevant thing where is it, what is it? In what form does it show up? Show me what is this “i”.

[denise]

morning diana,
my crazy weekend is over, i will look at your post today.
thanks, denise

[DianaM]

Hi Denise,

No problem, i had a crazy weekend too.
I'll be waiting for your reply.

[denise]

hi diana,

First, how are you feeling about this investigation now?

i feel fine about it. im sure i will get this soon.
i have house guests and am pretty busy right now so dont have any answers tonight. i did spend a little time with the questions and will spend more tomorrow.
thanks, denise

[denise]

diana,
i have the worst dreams when i do my 'homework' at night. i spend all night searching and i woke up screaming the other night.
i looked at the questions today and do not find the 'i' exists as any of the things you asked about. i have a greater understanding of how the universe works and 'my place' in it now than i did 2 months ago when we started. i am more comfortable, less attached and in general more relaxed than i was though i still get caught up in ego stuff.
g'night,
denise

[DianaM]

Hi Denise, This is going great!

i looked at the questions today and do not find the 'i' exists as any of the things you asked about.

Can the i be found somewhere else? Somewhere or in something I didn't mention?

i have the worst dreams when i do my 'homework' at night. i spend all night searching and i woke up screaming the other night.

Could you locate the fear causing this reaction? If so, please describe it.

less attached and in general more relaxed than i was though i still get caught up in ego stuff.

What does it mean to get caught in ego stuff? Could you explain more about how it happens? Should that stop?

[denise]

diana,

Can the i be found somewhere else? Somewhere or in something I didn't mention?

i have not looked elsewhere for the i. is looking for the i the only way to learn it does not exist? last night i read delma's article Dear Seeker here http://liberationunleashed.com/Article_Dear-Seeker.html. the article does help me
understand what looking is.

Could you locate the fear causing this reaction? If so, please describe it.

i believe i was desperately searching and not finding. it's been a few nights. i don't know that it is fear as much as it is pressure to see and move on to whatever is next. it's not that what is now is bad, it's just that i'm tired of this stage and curious about what's next. i want to play with the big kids!

What does it mean to get caught in ego stuff? Could you explain more about how it happens? Should that stop?

lately my neighbors have been pissing me off either being catty or driving too fast. i am tired with all that has been happening at home and i am a bit frayed. equanimity recedes as exhaustion takes over. should it stop? i don't know. i'd like it to but life might be boring if i was always ok with everything.
denise