Looking for a guide

[joeylott]

I see that the anxiety doesn't actually obscure being but it sure SEEMS to. It's like it colours everything a certain colour.

It seems to until you look. So take a look, and tell me if it's possible to find non-conceptual divisions called anxiety, color, everything, me, my experience, something else, etc. There's a story that says that what is happening is anxiety and that the anxiety is doing something called coloring everything. But if you look, is that actually true?

I also see I harbour a not-so-secret desire to wake up so I never have to feel like this again. I know this comes from things I have read about people who are realized not having fear anymore and that sounds pretty damn desirable right now (don't worry I see all the seeking and striving in this and i know that they are appearances)

I'm not worried. :)

I'll affirm what you already know, which is that there is no separate you to wake up, there is no separate you having personal experiences, and so-called awakening guarantees nothing. When people speak or write about no more fear, they are either being deceptive, they are deluded, or you as the reader are interpreting the statement to fit with your desire rather than reading or hearing what is actually said.

From a certain perspective it is accurate to say that there is no longer fear, but that is misleading because that implies that there was a change. So take a look right now in direct experience and see if you can find something to call fear. There is something happening, to be sure. I am not suggesting that you should deny whatever is happening. But rather, can you say, for certain, that what is happening is fear? How would you know? What is your proof?

When you believe that there is this thing called fear then it automatically creates the illusion of separation. But all it takes is a look. Just see if you can actually find it. See if you can find the experiencer of the fear and the thing called fear.

I mostly see that there is no one separate from what is happening but man its way easier to flow with that when everything is "easy" if you know what I mean.

Yes, of course! And still, take a look and see if easier or harder makes any difference to the spaciousness that you are. There may be an experience of easier flow happening or an experience of a lack of flow. But is there an experiencer in either case?

Sincerely,
Joey

[Angela12]

It seems to until you look. So take a look, and tell me if it's possible to find non-conceptual divisions called anxiety, color, everything, me, my experience, something else, etc. There's a story that says that what is happening is anxiety and that the anxiety is doing something called coloring everything. But if you look, is that actually true?

There are no non-conceptual divisions. No distinctions at all without thought. I see that anxiety is just a sensation. Yesterday I had the thought what if I jus let the anxiety completely take over and then I opened up to that to see what it's really made of ...and it suddenly vanished


I

'll affirm what you already know, which is that there is no separate you to wake up, there is no separate you having personal experiences, and so-called awakening guarantees nothing. When people speak or write about no more fear, they are either being deceptive, they are deluded, or you as the reader are interpreting the statement to fit with your desire rather than reading or hearing what is actually said.

From a certain perspective it is accurate to say that there is no longer fear, but that is misleading because that implies that there was a change. So take a look right now in direct experience and see if you can find something to call fear. There is something happening, to be sure. I am not suggesting that you should deny whatever is happening. But rather, can you say, for certain, that what is happening is fear? How would you know? What is your proof?

When you believe that there is this thing called fear then it automatically creates the illusion of separation. But all it takes is a look. Just see if you can actually find it. See if you can find the experiencer of the fear and the thing called fear.

I've been sitting with this since yesterday but I feel like something popped. It was your line about "is there a separate self that can grant or deny permission". It's like I saw through the illusion. I'm not sure it's complete but there has been some kind of shift (or else I'm jut stoned from the beta blocker meds they have me on). I was a bit hesitant to say anything because I'm not sure it's real and/or complete and I'm afraid it's going to go away. There is still some separate selfless here but when I look I see it's not real.

Yes, of course! And still, take a look and see if easier or harder makes any difference to the spaciousness that you are. There may be an experience of easier flow happening or an experience of a lack of flow. But is there an experiencer in either case?

I see that there isn't.

Angela

[joeylott]

Angela,

I've been sitting with this since yesterday but I feel like something popped. It was your line about "is there a separate self that can grant or deny permission". It's like I saw through the illusion. I'm not sure it's complete but there has been some kind of shift (or else I'm jut stoned from the beta blocker meds they have me on). I was a bit hesitant to say anything because I'm not sure it's real and/or complete and I'm afraid it's going to go away. There is still some separate selfless here but when I look I see it's not real.

There is a simple test to see if it is real. Is it ever not here? Can anything diminish it in any way?

There is a simple test to see if it is complete. Does it have any boundaries? Are you separate from it? Is there anything that could possibly be separate from it? Is there any beginning or end to it?

I am moving long-distance during the next week. So I am not likely to be able to respond every day. However, I will be responding as I can.

Sincerely,
Joey

[Angela12]

Hi Joey

There is a simple test to see if it is real. Is it ever not here? Can anything diminish it in any way?

There is a simple test to see if it is complete. Does it have any boundaries? Are you separate from it? Is there anything that could possibly be separate from it? Is there any beginning or end to it?

I am moving long-distance during the next week. So I am not likely to be able to respond every day. However, I will be responding as I can.

I am going to reflect on this fora bit. Have a good move. Hope it goes smoothly for you.

Sincerely,
Angela

[Angela12]

H Joey:

I am trying to put this experience into words. It’s somewhat like being hollow – like seeing, hearing, tasting are just there. Like seeing IS me, not that I am seeing but that I AM seeing itself. And seeing is emptiness but not empty emptiness. A full beautiful joyful emptiness. An emptiness that celebrates itself in each moment. That surprises itself and dances with itself. A beautiful meaningless dance.
There was definitely a moment. The moment of “is there a separate self who can grant or deny permission” and in that moment I realized there wasn't. And it made me laugh. Of course there isn't. There is only what’s happening. No one controlling it- utterly ridiculous, laughable to think there is. There is nothing personal at all. And yet at the same time nothing separate.

Such a subtle yet remarkable “click”. Nothing like what I expected. Remarkably unremarkable.
There is still me-ness that arises but it’s seen to be not me. Like a mist. Habitual arisings- anger and then underneath utter joy, amusement. Who’s angry? Sometimes doubt as to whether there might be a me in there somewhere still.

Uncertainty comes up. Is this it? Is this what I was seeking? It’s like the funniest joke ever told. Like the lamest punch line ever to the funniest joke ever told.

Nothing changes. Nothing actually changes. Not one thing. Just like you said. And yet everything is different, everything is welcomed.

I'm a bit afraid to commit this to paper ( so to speak) like I might jinx it hahahaha.

sincerely,
Angela

[joeylott]

Angela,

I apologize for the delay in responding. I will post this now, and I anticipate being away from internet access for another three or four days starting from now.

What you have written is beautiful and very clear.

Part of the liberation unleashed process, as you may be aware, is to ask a set of standard questions at this point. This gives the other guides something to reference to see if they have any further questions to ask. Some of these questions may seem rather remedial at this point as we've been over much of this many times. But these are the standard questions, and if you can take a moment to respond to each with freshness and honesty this will be helpful for the process.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works
from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

As I have said, I will be away from the internet for three or four days. You can expect to hear back from me at that point.

Sincerely,
Joey

[Angela12]

Hi Joey:
I am going to answer the questions below one at at time but first a proviso. Since my last post I had another huge bout of anxiety which "seemed to" rebuild my separate self- not all the way but somewhat. You will see what i mean when i answer the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

I still know there there isn't and never and I still can't find a separate self but as i said it feels like something came back and obscured my understanding or something. It's actually quite difficult to explain but i have heard others describe it as "i got it...i lost it...' Oddly I'm not overly concerned about it. Although there is some sadness the seeking energy has not really returned too forcefully so I am able to gently explore with direct experience without getting to frustrated.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works
from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a thought, nothing more...nothing less. Just a thought that references only itself when you look at it carefully. there isn't really anyone there-just a thought that there is. I don't have a direct experience of it starting but if pressed for an answer I would say that it's learned. But it doesn't really matter because it's not really there so who cares what it seems like. Just a thought that is believed (the belief being just another thought)

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

My dialogue with you has been really amazing. the best I can describe it is to say that it helped me see all the hidden assumptions and expose them in direct experience. The difference is before the dialogue I understood non-duality in an intellectual way. I thought i understood direct experience but learned that I didn't. Your patiently guiding me back to direct experience over and over again led me to actually experience non-duality and although i wouldn't by any stretch say I am fully established there I also know i can never forget what i have seen.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was a bit of a two-parter. I saw that there was only distinction if i looked to phenomena for the truth but the clincher was when you asked "is there a separate self that can grant or deny permission?"

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

Most of he time I see that I don't. Even in my most recent experience with anxiety there was a letting go and a seeing that it was just happening and then the resistance just stopped

6) Anything to add?

I'm just not entirely sure where to go from here. I feel like I need reminding still.

I hope you move went well. Sounds like it was a big one!

With gratitude,
Angela

[joeylott]

Angela,

Thank you for the responses. I will ask the other guides to have a look and see if they have any further questions. Stand by for that.

Regarding the "got it, lost it" phenomenon, it sounds to me as though you have noted a significant shift in which the seeking energy seems to have been vastly diminished. I have found that this is a common experience.

I'm just not entirely sure where to go from here. I feel like I need reminding still.

In my experience this essential discovery of yourself as you are/the transparency of a separate self is the beginning of an open exploration. Liberation Unleashed provides a community for ongoing communication and support in this exploration.

Sincerely,
Joey

[joeylott]

Angela,

The other guides have no further questions. Which means that our work on this leg of the journey is complete.

Soon you will have access to additional sections of the forum. You ought to see that happen in fairly short order. Additionally, if you use facebook then you will be invited to join the LU facebook groups. These groups are more active than the forum, and it is a great opportunity to receive ongoing community support in exploration.

It has been truly an honor to have this opportunity to serve as your guide. I have thoroughly enjoyed this.

This is only the beginning. There is no end.

Sincerely,
Joey