Hi - brief awakening yesterday

[bejahu]

I also noticed that thoughts are catching and something encourages people to try to get other people to catch them. [There was an advert about the Race for Life in a tube train that said 'Cancer - everyone in this carriage hates you...' and it just struck me that that really isn't true, but sticking a sign up about it is going to kind of breed that thought and loads of negative feelings about that in a lot of people.]

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

Glad to know you had fun and kept looking!

I think you missed this question:

Are thoughts thinking thoughts?

and it's one of my favorite pointers. Can you look for the answer, please?

Canfora wrote:
Can you find a feeler, an entity that causes sensations or choses which sensations to feel? What can you find causing sensations?

This was more difficult, I'm still working on this one. My body definitely feels emotions and tiredness, but the less I identify with the emotions, and if I try to spot the thoughts in the emotions, the less they drag on... I don't know, I'm not really feeling any emotions at the moment - I will keep looking at this one.

In your experience, sensations are realy felt inside the body, by the body, or is that something that you think is happening?
Is the body an experiencer or is the body experienced - like thoughts, like sounds of traffic, like smell of coffee?

A little exercise:
Join your hands together and look at them.
Is a you between the hands or in the hands feeling the sensation?
Is the sensation felt by the body or inside the body?
Can you find a you, a center when sensing the hands? Or just the experience of seeing, the sensations that are happening?

You're doing great!
Sandra

[bejahu]

Wow!

Is the body an experiencer or is the body experienced

The body is experienced! lol

I tried to get inside whether thoughts are thinking thoughts - I will give that some more consideration, I hit a bit of a wall with that one (my mind wants to go into some sort of Phd about it - this probably indicates something...!!!) [I had a load of thoughts earlier about how this process is stupid and pointless, but I seem to have shaken that off.]

I feel like thoughts breed, maybe only when they're inside a / my mind, though. I don't feel they actually think, it's more like they breed and multiply. Maybe they think, but only inside my mind - I feel like when they're out there they are kind of inert and probably gradually dissipate if they're left alone. Kind of like a virus that only grows when it's in your body but remains inert in the soil. If the mind is a thought-creature, which it must be, and the mind thinks thoughts, then I suppose thoughts do think.

Join your hands together and look at them.
Is a you between the hands or in the hands feeling the sensation?
Is the sensation felt by the body or inside the body?
Can you find a you, a center when sensing the hands? Or just the experience of seeing, the sensations that are happening?

The body feels because there's life in it. A dead body doesn't feel (I suppose!), so it must awareness / experience / life that's feeling and seeing, through the body. There is a vague feeling that there is a me between my hands as well as in them. It's a vague kind of feeling, not really focussed, although it's felt through / next to my hands.

When I used to think about where my centre of awareness was, it always felt to be focussed in a small area in the middle of my head, but now it seems to have expanded and includes my shoulders and the space about a foot or so around my head a bit too.

You're doing great!

Thank you, it all feels a bit like I'm sticking my neck out! lol

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Beverley, you are trying to find the answers with thinking. It's easier than that, just look to what is happening here and now. Let's focus only in thoughts, there is no need to rush.

I tried to get inside whether thoughts are thinking thoughts

Are you saying that thoughts happen inside the body? Is this your experience?

I hit a bit of a wall with that one (my mind wants to go into some sort of Phd about it - this probably indicates something...!!!) [I had a load of thoughts earlier about how this process is stupid and pointless, but I seem to have shaken that off.]

Nice, you were able to see what was going on. Did you really shake that off or the content of thoughts changed without a thinker that could decide what to think? Can thoughts be controlled?

I feel like thoughts breed, maybe only when they're inside a / my mind, though.

So a mind is needed to breed thoughts? If you look to your experience, can you find this mind? Does this cluster of thoughts exist? Is mind something that is experienced in reality, like a cup or a cat or a cloud?

If the mind is a thought-creature, which it must be, and the mind thinks thoughts, then I suppose thoughts do think.

Can you explain this idea other way? Don't tell me your thoughts about this, describe what you see happening, please.

Some questions that may help you look:

Can you experience more than one thought at the same time?
Where do thoughts come from? Look, can you see their origin?
Do they stay long, can you stop them?
To where do they go when they aren't being experienced?
Can you choose what to think?
Can you think only happy thoughts if you want too?
If I say "Don't think about your left foot." what happens?

Sandra

[bejahu]

Beverley, you are trying to find the answers with thinking.

I can see this. I realised I've got a lot of fear of failure coming up and one part of my mind is saying this is all nonsense and the other part of my mind is trying to convince that part that it's not and I can do this. ANYWAY, I will slow down.

bejahu wrote:
I tried to get inside whether thoughts are thinking thoughts

Are you saying that thoughts happen inside the body? Is this your experience?

No, I mean I'm trying to see whether thoughts think thoughts. My experience is that thoughts happen in my head, but I'm feeling a bit bemused about what thoughts even are now, let alone feelings... :-s

(It seems that I didn't shake off the thoughts about this being stupid and pointless, the thoughts just went subconscious.)

Can thoughts be controlled?

Definitely not (at least not by me in my experience). The only way to deal with them effectively is to be unconcerned by them.

I was thinking that the mind is kind of a nest of thoughts, but then it seemed to me that the mind is more like gravity in my awareness, or a magnetic field that attracts certain thoughts - as in I don't attract thoughts about being a millionaire who lives in Singapore because I don't have that kind of thought-gravity/magnetism/attraction - or, if I pursue that thought, it's so plainly untrue that it has absolutely no meaning to me or power over me. If I dwell on that thought, it doesn't *think* further thoughts, but it does attract further thoughts about what it might be like to be a millionaire in Singapore. The thoughts move and change, but I still don't feel that thoughts actually think, although they seem to have a bit of a life of their own. Now I'm not holding the Singapore millionaire thoughts they're drifting away, like on a piece of loose elastic.

bejahu wrote:
If the mind is a thought-creature, which it must be, and the mind thinks thoughts, then I suppose thoughts do think.

Can you explain this idea other way? Don't tell me your thoughts about this, describe what you see happening, please.

I don't have anything except thoughts on this [blush].

Can you experience more than one thought at the same time?

Yes, I remember this happening earlier, I can't remember what the thoughts were, but there were 2 of them simultaneously. In my experience, I've also found that you can have a subconscious stream of thought (particularly negative thought) running that can be masked by conscious thought and which comes back to the fore when the conscious thinking stops.

Where do thoughts come from? Look, can you see their origin?

I feel that they're just 'out there' and then they come to you if you do something / see something, etc, that attracts them. I can't see any sign of their origin.

Do they stay long, can you stop them?

They don't stay in the same way, but the general idea can hang around, changing and getting emotions involved. When you've got one thought that you've identified with, you open the floodgates for all sorts of similar thoughts to come in. I feel that the individual thought moves on, but it can be part of a torrent of thought on the same general kind of topic. I don't think you can stop them, they like to keep flowing, sometimes fast. I do get a feeling that they have a kind of pleasure in moving, but maybe that's my imagination being overactive...

To where do they go when they aren't being experienced?

I don't know, I just feel they move out of awareness.

Can you choose what to think?

I can choose to think about something, like purple rabbits hopping around; it's harder to choose to stop thinking about something - like

If I say "Don't think about your left foot." what happens?

I will think about my left foot, whether I want to or not, until I just let go of it, or move onto thinking about something else.

Can you think only happy thoughts if you want too?

No - I suppose you might kid yourself you are, but thoughts are very big on being subconscious, in my experience.

:-)

Beverley.

[bejahu]

I thought I would just post a quick update. I had a lot of intense feelings come up this morning, which I managed to finally just allow to be. The feeling of fear of failure seems to have been at least as much to do with me trying to / wanting to carry on doing housework and gardening without giving my body space to recover from marching around London for 2 days. A lot of ego stuff.

This space is a good deal more relaxed now!

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

I realised I've got a lot of fear of failure coming up and one part of my mind is saying this is all nonsense and the other part of my mind is trying to convince that part that it's not and I can do this.

If / when this happen again, can you please look to the experience itself and describe what is going on without telling the story of what you think is going on?

What can you see being experienced? Fear of failure or a mix of thoughts and sensations labeled as "fear of failure", as a way to make sense of what is being experienced?

Can you see the division of minds you talk about happening?

What happens to the "fear" when you look to what is going on?

I don't have anything except thoughts on this [blush].

:) Yes, there are lots of beliefs in your post. And I made an avalanche of questions hoping that you compare your beliefs with what can be experienced in reality. This post is too long but I'm not going to edit it. If you also do an avalanche of answers don't forget to copy the text before pressing preview or submit. That way if the site shuts you off you can login again and paste the text.

Here are my questions:

My experience is that thoughts happen in my head

How do you know this? Is this a thought or is this experienced?

(It seems that I didn't shake off the thoughts about this being stupid and pointless, the thoughts just went subconscious.)

Same here. How do you know thoughts went subconscious? Is this a thought or is this experienced?

If there is no self - having conscious or unconscious thoughts - how can any kind of thoughts be shaken off?
Are you expecting to have control over thoughts? How will that happen?

The only way to deal with them effectively is to be unconcerned by them.

Is this something that you are trying to do, not to be concerned with thoughts? How is it going? Can you do it?

I was thinking that the mind is kind of a nest of thoughts, but then it seemed to me that the mind is more like gravity in my awareness, or a magnetic field that attracts certain thoughts - as in I don't attract thoughts about being a millionaire who lives in Singapore because I don't have that kind of thought-gravity/magnetism/attraction - or, if I pursue that thought, it's so plainly untrue that it has absolutely no meaning to me or power over me. If I dwell on that thought, it doesn't *think* further thoughts, but it does attract further thoughts about what it might be like to be a millionaire in Singapore. The thoughts move and change, but I still don't feel that thoughts actually think, although they seem to have a bit of a life of their own. Now I'm not holding the Singapore millionaire thoughts they're drifting away, like on a piece of loose elastic.

Where is this mind, how do you know it exists?

Are you saying that you can attract some thoughts? How?

I don't attract thoughts about being a millionaire who lives in Singapore because I don't have that kind of thought-gravity/magnetism/attraction - or, if I pursue that thought, it's so plainly untrue that it has absolutely no meaning to me or power over me.

So, what I hear you say - correct me if I'm wrong - is that some thoughts seem to have more gravity/magnetism/attraction than others.
Can you look and tell me which ones, please. I'm guessing that are the ones that are all about you :)

Yes, I remember this happening earlier, I can't remember what the thoughts were, but there were 2 of them simultaneously.

Can you have the thoughts "shower" and "wine" simultaneously, or the thoughts "flower" and "monkey" or the thoughts "I" "am" "thinking" "thoughts"? Are you sure that two thoughts can happen at the same time?

In my experience, I've also found that you can have a subconscious stream of thought (particularly negative thought) running that can be masked by conscious thought and which comes back to the fore when the conscious thinking stops.

How do you know that what you are saying here is real? How are the conscious and subconscious experienced? Can you see unconscious thoughts happening? Can you find a division between conscious and subconscious when you look to what is here? Or conscious and subconscious? - where are they if you look to what is around you?

I feel that they're just 'out there' and then they come to you if you do something / see something, etc, that attracts them. I can't see any sign of their origin.

Are you saying that somewhere there is a place full of thoughts that are attracted to you by something you do or see? Is this something that can be confirmed? How?

I don't think you can stop them, they like to keep flowing, sometimes fast. I do get a feeling that they have a kind of pleasure in moving, but maybe that's my imagination being overactive...

That is a nice story but do you really think thoughts can feel pleasure?

To where do they go when they aren't being experienced?
I don't know, I just feel they move out of awareness.

Good! When you allow yourself to not know you stop going into a story and start seeing what is really happening.
This is also my experience.

I can choose to think about something, like purple rabbits hopping around;

Are you sure? Did you choose to think about purple rabbits hopping around or these thoughts just popped into your awareness?

I thought I would just post a quick update. I had a lot of intense feelings come up this morning, which I managed to finally just allow to be. The feeling of fear of failure seems to have been at least as much to do with me trying to / wanting to carry on doing housework and gardening without giving my body space to recover from marching around London for 2 days. A lot of ego stuff.

This space is a good deal more relaxed now!

Nice :) Take care of yourself.

Love,
Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra :-) ,

[This post is very long too - thank you for bearing with me in this!!!!]

bejahu wrote:
I realised I've got a lot of fear of failure coming up and one part of my mind is saying this is all nonsense and the other part of my mind is trying to convince that part that it's not and I can do this.

If / when this happen again, can you please look to the experience itself and describe what is going on without telling the story of what you think is going on?

I think this is what I managed to do yesterday morning, I felt where the feelings were in my body, this was when they released and I felt a lot more comfortable. I could see the division of my minds talking - if this feeling happens again, I will aim to look at it more closely.

What can you see being experienced? Fear of failure or a mix of thoughts and sensations labeled as "fear of failure", as a way to make sense of what is being experienced?

I'm fairly certain it's a labelled mix of thoughts and sensations, although it isn't here at the moment.

bejahu wrote:
My experience is that thoughts happen in my head

How do you know this? Is this a thought or is this experienced?

This must have been a thought. Thoughts don't feel like they're confined to my head now. There is a feeling of 'hearing' them in my head, but the thoughts themselves are mostly outside it.

bejahu wrote:
(It seems that I didn't shake off the thoughts about this being stupid and pointless, the thoughts just went subconscious.)

Same here. How do you know thoughts went subconscious? Is this a thought or is this experienced?

If there is no self - having conscious or unconscious thoughts - how can any kind of thoughts be shaken off?
Are you expecting to have control over thoughts? How will that happen?

Is this something that you are trying to do, not to be concerned with thoughts? How is it going? Can you do it?

My reasoning that the thoughts went subconscious was that I wasn't aware of them but they were plainly still affecting me. (I tried to find a subconscious yesterday without success.) I am trying to be unconcerned with thoughts... I have found that, if I'm unconcerned by them, they just go away, HOWEVER *trying* to be unconcerned by them plainly doesn't work - and possibly just makes me unaware of them consciously so that they do what I've been calling 'going subconscious' (this is last bit is speculation, I know).

bejahu wrote:
I was thinking that the mind is kind of a nest of thoughts, but then it seemed to me that the mind is more like gravity in my awareness, or a magnetic field that attracts certain thoughts - as in I don't attract thoughts about being a millionaire who lives in Singapore because I don't have that kind of thought-gravity/magnetism/attraction - or, if I pursue that thought, it's so plainly untrue that it has absolutely no meaning to me or power over me. If I dwell on that thought, it doesn't *think* further thoughts, but it does attract further thoughts about what it might be like to be a millionaire in Singapore. The thoughts move and change, but I still don't feel that thoughts actually think, although they seem to have a bit of a life of their own. Now I'm not holding the Singapore millionaire thoughts they're drifting away, like on a piece of loose elastic.

Where is this mind, how do you know it exists?

Are you saying that you can attract some thoughts? How?

The nest of thoughts mind definitely doesn't exist. I was looking at this yesterday and it does seem to me that, if I have a certain type of thought which I identify with, it attracts more of the same (maybe this is thoughts thinking?). However, it's not me that attracts them, I don't know where they come from or why they come along.

So, what I hear you say - correct me if I'm wrong - is that some thoughts seem to have more gravity/magnetism/attraction than others.
Can you look and tell me which ones, please. I'm guessing that are the ones that are all about you :)

You're darn right - it's because I'm so cool! ;-D [I still don't understand how I attract the thoughts about me that I do attract (if I do 'attract' them)... but that's going down the road into some serious THINKING, lol] (I hope I'm not the only one who finds this so tough in a way I can't describe...)

bejahu wrote:
Yes, I remember this happening earlier, I can't remember what the thoughts were, but there were 2 of them simultaneously.

Can you have the thoughts "shower" and "wine" simultaneously, or the thoughts "flower" and "monkey" or the thoughts "I" "am" "thinking" "thoughts"? Are you sure that two thoughts can happen at the same time?

I thought you'd ask about this ;-) so I looked into it some more. The way I remember it happening was that I was having a train of thought about something and another thought popped up quickly to remind me about something else - it's possible the train of thought stopped while the reminder thought was there. 'Shower', 'wine', 'flower' and 'monkey' can all be thought in very quick succession, but not at exactly the same time (unless I change them so that I'm having a glass of wine in the shower or the monkey is holding a flower, but I'm fairly confident that doesn't count).

bejahu wrote:
In my experience, I've also found that you can have a subconscious stream of thought (particularly negative thought) running that can be masked by conscious thought and which comes back to the fore when the conscious thinking stops.

How do you know that what you are saying here is real? How are the conscious and subconscious experienced? Can you see unconscious thoughts happening? Can you find a division between conscious and subconscious when you look to what is here? Or conscious and subconscious? - where are they if you look to what is around you?

I don't know that this is really what's happening - it's the only explanation that makes sense (to Beverley). I don't experience the subconscious, and I'm not aware of it in any way. I have been told that scientists are certain it exists, and it is a helpful way to explain a lot of my experiences with persistent negative thoughts. Or at least it has been a helpful way until now... Some negative thoughts, sometimes, seem to stick to me like glue and, whenever I had what ought to have been a peaceful moment, there they were, making my (Beverley's) life a misery.

I can't see any sort of division between them, there is awareness and then there is (maybe) what isn't in awareness (no, I can't see what isn't in awareness...).

bejahu wrote:
I feel that they're just 'out there' and then they come to you if you do something / see something, etc, that attracts them. I can't see any sign of their origin.

Are you saying that somewhere there is a place full of thoughts that are attracted to you by something you do or see? Is this something that can be confirmed? How?

The feeling was that thoughts are floating around in space and then they, kind of, sense blood in the water, like piranhas or sharks, and they come and getcha... HOWEVER, I have no evidence that this is what's happening because I don't know what thoughts get up to, or if they exist, when they aren't in my awareness.

bejahu wrote:
I don't think you can stop them, they like to keep flowing, sometimes fast. I do get a feeling that they have a kind of pleasure in moving, but maybe that's my imagination being overactive...

That is a nice story but do you really think thoughts can feel pleasure?

I don't know. I have no evidence that they do, but I have no evidence that they don't either... I accept that my imagination is probably working overtime.

bejahu wrote:
To where do they go when they aren't being experienced?
I don't know, I just feel they move out of awareness.

Good! When you allow yourself to not know you stop going into a story and start seeing what is really happening.
This is also my experience.

Oh good!!! Thank you! :-) (I see that I am trying to protect myself/Beverley with stories - this doesn't make sense.)

bejahu wrote:
I can choose to think about something, like purple rabbits hopping around;

Are you sure? Did you choose to think about purple rabbits hopping around or these thoughts just popped into your awareness?

I did wonder at the time why specifically purple rabbits came to me - they did just pop into my awareness.

I know this post is VERY long, and I'm so grateful to you for giving me your time. I would just like to add that I've been looking into who enjoys knitting socks. I used to think that Beverley enjoyed knitting socks, but I've just found out that my body and awareness enjoy knitting socks; this didn't make much sense at first but, after I sat with it for a bit, it made at least as much sense as Beverley enjoying knitting socks.

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

I love your sense of humor :)
Thank you for answering my avalanche of questions! Let's forget thoughts for a while and look in other direction.

I know this post is VERY long, and I'm so grateful to you for giving me your time. I would just like to add that I've been looking into who enjoys knitting socks. I used to think that Beverley enjoyed knitting socks, but I've just found out that my body and awareness enjoy knitting socks; this didn't make much sense at first but, after I sat with it for a bit, it made at least as much sense as Beverley enjoying knitting socks.

I want you to look to the experience of Beverley knitting socks and do two exercises. The goal here is to see how language, labelling affects experience. Read all the text before doing the exercises, please. That way you will know what are my questions, and can look for the answers while doing the exercises.

In the first exercise I want you to tell the story of Beverley knitting socks, using the word "I": I am picking a blue wool, I can feel the softness of the thread, I'm listening to the sound of rain outside, I'm thinking about dinner... (you get the idea). Do this for 5 or 10 minutes.

In the second exercise I want you to describe the experience itself. What is happening - here and now - without the story of Beverley. Imagine that you had amnesia and forgot everything about you - see what is happening like if you are knitting socks for the first time. Describe what is being experienced without using the label "I", using only verbs: seeing the needles, hearing sounds, thinking thoughts, sensing the wool,... Do this for 5 or 10 minutes.

Now compare the two ways of labeling experience:
1. Is one truer than the other, more close to reality? If so, which one?
2. The use of labels affects the experience? If yes, how?
3. Watch what is happening in the body when doing both exercises. Are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing? Does one way of looking feels better than the other?
4. Are labels real? What is here without labels?
5. Does the "I" exist in reality - do you experience any "I" when you look to experience - or is "I" just a label used to communicate?

Take your time doing these exercises and tell me what you find,
Love, Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra,

:-) I did the exercise you suggested and I found the following:

1. Is one truer than the other, more close to reality? If so, which one?

The second is much truer. It flows and feels calmer.

2. The use of labels affects the experience? If yes, how?

Labelling the experience as something *I'm doing* brings in a tension, a feeling of trying to control, or slightly forcing, the activity.

3. Watch what is happening in the body when doing both exercises. Are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing? Does one way of looking feels better than the other?

The first way brought a feeling of tightness in my middle / stomach. The second way was much more relaxed.

4. Are labels real? What is here without labels?

The labelling is not real. Without the labelling, life just enjoys knitting a sock and my / the body just relaxes into the experience.

5. Does the "I" exist in reality - do you experience any "I" when you look to experience - or is "I" just a label used to communicate?

"I" doesn't exist, it's kind of a bizarre, forced thing grafted onto life. Communicating would be a lot harder without it, but knitting, at least, is more free without it. (I tried the exercise with eating and got the same results.)

I've realised that I have no conception of what LIFE is - who would have thought that life would enjoy knitting a sock?! lol

:-D

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

Very nice, clear seeing! Yay!

I've realised that I have no conception of what LIFE is - who would have thought that life would enjoy knitting a sock?! lol

Wonderful. Drop concepts and look to everything with fresh eyes. Concepts can never be the experience, like you saw, the labelling is not real.

I wonder why looking to thoughts didn't went so well... Did you do anything different this time?

Let's try thoughts again :)

You looked and saw that knitting and eating were just happening without a you there doing anything.

Can you look to the experience of thinking, when you are doing everyday tasks, knitting, eating, walking, and tell me what you see happening? Not what you think about thoughts, what you see happening.

The big question about thoughts is: is something or someone thinking? Is this what is experienced?
Here are some questions to help you focus when you look:

1. When thinking happens - every kind of thoughts - can you experience a separate entity, a thinker, thinking the thoughts?

2. Are thoughts thinking themselves? Can the thought "hand" think the thought "flour"?

3. Are thoughts about Beverley and its story in any way different than other thoughts - are they being thinked by a separate entity, a Beverley that owns the story of Beverley?

Sandra

PS - I am using numbers in the questions to not lose track of them. I get easily distracted...

[bejahu]

Hi Sandra,

I think I got / am stuck with thoughts because I have been taught, with my experience as a mental health service user, that thoughts are big, scary, incredibly powerful monsters that can destroy my life at a whim. I feel much more relaxed about them since the experience knitting the sock.

Can you look to the experience of thinking, when you are doing everyday tasks, knitting, eating, walking, and tell me what you see happening? Not what you think about thoughts, what you see happening.

I see that thoughts come into awareness and then leave again UNLESS I think they are 'bad' thoughts, in which case a great big alarm bell starts to go off and I have to relax and tell myself it's just a thought.

1. When thinking happens - every kind of thoughts - can you experience a separate entity, a thinker, thinking the thoughts?

No, the thoughts just come along and then they're there and then they leave.

2. Are thoughts thinking themselves? Can the thought "hand" think the thought "flour"?

No, the thoughts just *are*, drifting.

3. Are thoughts about Beverley and its story in any way different than other thoughts - are they being thinked by a separate entity, a Beverley that owns the story of Beverley?

They aren't different in that they behave differently or that anyone thinks them, but some of them do tend to trigger a kind of tension. (This is not much of a problem today.)

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

I think I got / am stuck with thoughts because I have been taught, with my experience as a mental health service user, that thoughts are big, scary, incredibly powerful monsters that can destroy my life at a whim. I feel much more relaxed about them since the experience knitting the sock.

Glad to know you are feeling more relaxed. Let's talk about the content of thoughts.

Tell me a little story about yourself. Nothing personal, something trivial, for example "I like to go to the market on Saturdays and buy fresh vegetables".

Then look to that story and tell me:

1. When you are thinking about that story (or any other) where is that story going on, in reality or in thoughts? If you look around you, is the story happening here and now?

2. When you are thinking about that story (or any other) when is the story happening? Are thoughs about the past making you experience the past or are they being experienced here and now? Are thoughts about the future taking you to the future or are they being experienced here and now?

Sandra

[bejahu]

Hi,

Tell me a little story about yourself. Nothing personal, something trivial

I like to plan what I'm going to plant in the garden.

1. When you are thinking about that story (or any other) where is that story going on, in reality or in thoughts? If you look around you, is the story happening here and now?

The story is only going on in thoughts, it's not happening here and now.

2. When you are thinking about that story (or any other) when is the story happening? Are thoughs about the past making you experience the past or are they being experienced here and now? Are thoughts about the future taking you to the future or are they being experienced here and now?

The thoughts are all being experienced here and now. :-)

I have been working on finding *who* is experienced things / *who* is things and just finding that it's thoughts that believe Beverley experienced / is these things. I will incorporate being aware that the thoughts about my story are just happening here and now as well.

Thank you.

:-)

Beverley.

[Canfora]

Hi Beverley,

I have been working on finding *who* is experienced things

Good. I suggest that you change your search to finding the *what* instead of *who*. *What* is closer to reality.

Try this: get up and walk around the house, or look from a window or - even better - go outside and walk in the street.

What is looking? Can you experience an entity, a looker when looking? Or what is happening - here and now! - is just the looking itself, the raw experience of seeing things?

Have fun!
Sandra