Guidance requested

[preetybird]

My apologies Mike, these next couple of days are going to be hectic (traveling to visit family), and I may not have a chance to respond until Monday morning (pacific time). Is that ok? Thanks for your patience.

But! Until then, I'll be sure to sit with your latest post, especially the exercise you suggested toward the end.

[mikenew]

Great Preet. Enjoy :)

[preetybird]

Hi Mike,

Just now had a chance to reply back to you!

In decision making ... is there a decider that is sitting anywhere and deciding? Or is there simply a series of thoughts that when looked at in hindsight, 'follow a decision making process'? Is there any entity managing that process or choosing any of those thoughts?

That was a helpful video, and that’s a good way of putting it: the “decider” IS a series of thoughts that, when looked at in hindsight, follow a decision making process. Some thoughts, such as “I chose that, didn’t I?”, are thoughts about other thoughts. There isn’t an entity managing or controlling that series of thoughts, but there is an awareness of those thoughts. There wouldn’t be any thoughts if there wasn’t an awareness.

I feel as if I conflate the two—thoughts and awareness. The two aren’t separate really, but I feel as if it’s useful to look at the two separately, to distinguish between them … but I have a hard time doing even that.

What is your direct experience of attention? Is 'attention' not a label for the content of awareness? so again is all there is sensations, thoughts and awareness that are in continuous change?

Yes, attention is just another word for the content (thoughts, sensations, emotions, etc) of my awareness. If I “focus” in on the sensation of one foot resting on the other, the sensation easily fades away as another becomes dominant (such as the sound of the rain outside) without me doing anything about it or deciding which sensation should occupy my “attention”. The sensations and thoughts are ever-changing, but the awareness is always there.

Go into the 'location of this thing' .. what is your direct experience of it? Look deep into this, look for this "thing", this “sense of self”. What is it? A thought, maybe a bodily sensation or feeling—look for it and break it down, divide and dissect what it really is. Describe it.

Haha, I’m not feeling that “thing” as strongly today. Regardless, I’m inclined to locate that “thing” behind the eyes and somewhere in my head … perhaps because that “thing” seems to arise at the convergence of all my physical senses, and all of those physical senses can be found in my head. That sense of self is definitely a thought, but I’ve been struggling with distinguishing thought from awareness. I have experienced awareness (mere glimpses however, for a few seconds at a time), but even when thoughts aren’t there, this unshakeable sense of an “I” still is.

Going back to an earlier suggestion of yours, I really need to start practicing resting in awareness more. *Writing a reminder to myself now*

Is it body that experiences or body too is experienced? How is body experienced?

Body itself is experienced, or exists within awareness. In a way, my body is experienced as a series of sensations (similar to the series of thoughts you mentioned earlier). Sometimes I experience the series as one cohesive whole, as a discrete “body”. Other times, especially when I close my eyes, I can experience the sensations individually.

What is going on with the "stuck" feeling? What is being directly experienced?

It seems like the “stuck” feeling arises out of my expectations … of how much “progress” I ought to be making, etc. Overall, an expectation of change isn’t being met (such as a perception shift, or deeper insight). However, that expectation is just a thought, and a pretty flimsy one at that. I can grasp onto it, believe it, and make it my reality, or I can just accept that it’s all OK, and that I’ll get “there” in time.

That feeling even manifests itself as anxiety and corresponding physical sensations. When I’m trying to answer one of your questions and I feel as if I’m not arriving at an insight, the series of thoughts quicken, my heartbeat increases, I start looking for distractions, etc. But, when I see my expectations for what they are—thoughts—it’s easier to return to the act of looking.

Thanks for posing that question.

Try this and report. Close your eyes and feel the sensation of touch on the body. Can you find (outside of thought) a boundary between feeling and what is felt? or is there simply feeling happening?

When I look past my thoughts, such as “that’s my finger touching my thumb”, and just focus on the sensation itself (pretty hard to do!) … I can’t find a boundary. It’s far easier for me too see when not looking at two things coming into contact, because my thoughts can easily proclaim “see! see! these are TWO things TOUCHING” … which is hard to look past. For example, if I just look at the dull pain in my knee, I can see that feeling is just happening.

Try this with seeing: look at the computer screen. or out the window or whatever. is there REALLY a separate thing there that is being noticed by an eye/brain? or is it just "seeing"? Where does the seeing happen? Is there a Seer, a Seeing and a Seen? Or is there just seeing?

At first everything does seem separate. For example, my blanket has a color and shape that sets it apart from the bed, which itself has a different color and shape. Everything else in my visual field is similarly layered … objects resting above, below, next to other objects. However, the fact that I can see that the properties of one thing differ from the properties of another doesn’t mean that those things are separate … from each other, or from me … especially since everything exists within my awareness. It’s very counterintuitive at first, but I can see how seeing is just happening, without there necessarily being a Seer … or the separation between Seeing and Seen. However, I think I only caught a very slight glimpse of this, and maybe it’s just an intellectual understanding for now … but I will try to sit with this more.

[preetybird]

Hi Mike, just pinging you in case the auto-notice didn't make it through :)

[mikenew]

Hi Preet

Yes, attention is just another word for the content (thoughts, sensations, emotions, etc) of my awareness. If I “focus” in on the sensation of

MY awareness? I focus??? What is it that lay claims to this ownership?

Sometimes I experience the series as one cohesive whole, as a discrete “body”. Other times, especially when I close my eyes, I can experience the sensations individually.

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? What is this experiencer?

At first everything does seem separate. For example, my blanket has a color and shape that sets it apart from the bed, which itself has a different color and shape

In looking, is there separation or just one thing? What creates separation in what is being seen?
Do the exercise again and look carefully, slowly, deeply at what is being experienced.



Do this... with direct experiencing ...
What is there before these questions? What is there before a thought?
... Answer with direct experience only ... look, look, look, deeply, keep looking deeper and deeper....

Deep love

Mike

[preetybird]

MY awareness? I focus??? What is it that lay claims to this ownership?

A series of thoughts lay claim to this ownership, and they always seem to occur after a sensation/experience occurs. Each thought doesn’t explicitly state “I did this …” or “my so and so …”, but the thoughts always seem to come from a first-person point-of-view. As I go about my day, it feels as if my mind is constantly keeping a tally of how certain sensations/experiences affect “me”.

Although awareness appears to be localized in a body, it is not necessarily “mine”. I am not “doing” the awareness, it is simply occurring, constantly. When resting in awareness, it’s as if I’m sinking into a warm, comfortable bath, having let go of the propensity to keep a tally of how everything affects me. No wonder resting as awareness always results in sleepiness, haha! (Or am I getting it wrong?)

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? What is this experiencer?

There’s no “I” to be found in the direct experience. When observing bodily sensations, internal and external, the sensations simply appear to occur without being controlled by anything. There’s just the sheer fact that a hand resting on a laptop will result in a certain sensation, and there’s no “I” or “me” that has a say in the matter. However, there’s something that is still tripping me up: is there a “thing” that directs awareness, or is awareness buffeted by a constantly unfolding cause-and-effect sequence? For example, when trying to respond to your questions, I typically close my eyes. Am “I” closing my eyes, or do my eyes simply close as part of a cascade of hundreds of other thoughts/sensations/emotions that are triggered from your question? I'm still trying to sort this out …

In looking, is there separation or just one thing? What creates separation in what is being seen? Do the exercise again and look carefully, slowly, deeply at what is being experienced.

If I close my eyes, I can sense how everything could just be one thing, but I can’t seem to get past how objects in my vision appear to be separate. Intellectually I know that everything that I see (the lamp, the computer, etc) is all part of one “thing”, but I just can’t seem to shake my perception of boundaries between objects. The color, weight, physical dimension, etc of all seen objects seem to give rise to the separation that I perceive. For example, when I look at how my hands interact with my computer, the separation is very vivid.

Do this... with direct experiencing ... What is there before these questions? What is there before a thought?
... Answer with direct experience only ... look, look, look, deeply, keep looking deeper and deeper....

Before questions and thought, there is just … silence … an emptiness. Thoughts bubble up and create very vivid landscapes for a moment, but they soon disappear and other thoughts arise. Behind the emergence and dissolution of thoughts is … nothing, just an indescribable darkness.

But, then, what is the medium from which thoughts emerge and into which thoughts dissolve? It appears to be awareness, which in turn is localized to this body, which in turn, as you suggest, is not separate from anything else. I definitely need to sit with this more!

Thank you again for all your help :)

[mikenew]

Hi Preet,

I'm a bit on and off in replying to you at the moment, spending half my time camping at the Bentley CSG blockade here and the other half at home. Please bear with me.

as if my mind is constantly keeping

What is the "mind"? What is your direct experience of "mind"? Is there a mind or just a stream of thoughts?

When resting in awareness, it’s as if I’m sinking into a warm, comfortable bath, having let go of the propensity to keep a tally of how everything affects me. No wonder resting as awareness always results in sleepiness, haha! (Or am I getting it wrong?)

What is resting in awareness? What is NOT resting in awareness? Is there such a thing as "resting in awareness"? or just awareness?

However, there’s something that is still tripping me up: is there a “thing” that directs awareness, or is awareness buffeted by a constantly unfolding cause-and-effect sequence? For example, ...

Or is there another option?

For example, when trying to respond to your questions, I typically close my eyes. Am “I” closing my eyes, or do my eyes simply close as part of a cascade of hundreds of other thoughts/sensations/emotions that are triggered from your question? I'm still trying to sort this out …

Check on this. Look - is there a decision maker that decides to close your eyes? or do you eyes just close and thoughts then lay claim to them?

Look at the thoughts/sensations/emotions that are tirggered by this question ... see if any of them directly link to eye closing, is there some linking mechanism or process? ... or do the eyes just close at some point?

For example, when I look at how my hands interact with my computer, the separation is very vivid.

Look at "your hands on the computer"... what is seen? Describe it in direct experience.

Here's my go at it - As I type this "my hands are on my computer" what is seen is - patterns of colour, some 'static' and some 'moving', 'patches' of consistency that thoughts label as "rugs", "cupboard", "desk", "computer", "square edges of the computer screen", "hands" etc.... in the direct experience there is just colour, then separation happens as thoughts labels things, patterns are formed, blobs are labelled, then stories are constructed about the labels....

Look again and see if you can see each step of the process ... what is directly experienced before the labelling thoughts, thoughts labelling, stories constructed .... don't believe what I've written ... check for yourself.

And check ... is there a seer, seeing and seen? or is there just seeing?

For example, when I look ...

Can "I" look? If “I” is a label, can it look? Or does looking happen by itself?

In this process is "you" looking for "you"? what is the “I” that is looking at the “I”?

But, then, what is the medium from which thoughts emerge and into which thoughts dissolve? It appears to be awareness, which in turn is localized to this body, which in turn, as you suggest, is not separate from anything else. I definitely need to sit with this more!

Yes please look ... have you had any experience of awareness separate from your body?

Love

Mike

[preetybird]

Hi Mike,

First, I wish you the best of luck with the blockade! :)

And apologies for the delay! I came to check if you had responded to my most recent post from a few days ago, but noticed instead that my post never made it through! My wi-fi can be spotty sometimes, and so maybe I was bumped off the internet before the post was submitted …

Anyhow, I tried to recreate my original post as best as possible below:

What is the "mind"? What is your direct experience of "mind"? Is there a mind or just a stream of thoughts?

Mind is definitely just a stream of thoughts … a collection of thoughts in a moment of time that appears to be a continuous, consistent “thing” but actually changes constantly. Everything around the mind (such as external phenomena) constantly changes as well.

What is resting in awareness? What is NOT resting in awareness? Is there such a thing as "resting in awareness"? or just awareness?

Great catch. There is no resting in or out of awareness; awareness just is, always there. I often go down the rabbit hole of my thoughts, but pulling back helps me see the thought for what it really is: just a momentary blip, passing by.

However, there’s something that is still tripping me up: is there a “thing” that directs awareness, or is awareness buffeted by a constantly unfolding cause-and-effect sequence?

Or is there another option?

Hmmm, I can’t think of another option, except for perhaps: awareness is always present, as if it were constantly witnessing everything that is perceived (sensations, thoughts, etc).

Check on this. Look - is there a decision maker that decides to close your eyes? or do you eyes just close and thoughts then lay claim to them?

Look at the thoughts/sensations/emotions that are tirggered by this question ... see if any of them directly link to eye closing, is there some linking mechanism or process? ... or do the eyes just close at some point?

Yes, there appears to be a gaping hole between the moments a question is read, understood, and answered / acted upon. Even if it’s not an automatic response (such as turning around when my name is called), thoughts jostle around to make it seem as if some sort of decision-making is happening. None of the thoughts/sensations/emotions triggered by a question directly lead to an action. The eyes do just close at some point.

Look at "your hands on the computer"... what is seen? Describe it in direct experience.

…

Look again and see if you can see each step of the process ... what is directly experienced before the labelling thoughts, thoughts labelling, stories constructed .... don't believe what I've written ... check for yourself.

And check ... is there a seer, seeing and seen? or is there just seeing?

(I’ve been reminding myself to do this exercise these past few days—narrating in my head what is seen, and how it is labeled—and it is a very calming experience.)

Currently, a great many colors are seen, and they shift slightly as the eyes and head move. Colors in the periphery of vision are not as sharp. Stretches of color are interrupted/overlapped by other colors to provide a sense of depth and distance; these overlaps give “edges” to objects. The blacks are labeled as “screen bezel”, “bag”, and “TV”; the beiges are labeled “walls”, “sofa”, “chair”; and so on. The labeling process itself appears to happen immediately but … if I close my eyes and move my head in a random direction, and then open my eyes … the colors pop suddenly into awareness and there actually seems to be a slight delay between when the colors are registered and when a thought pops up to label them. During that delay (1-2 seconds max), nothing is there but that specific arrangement of colors.

When thoughts/labels arise, a cascade of mental activity occurs, which often leads to changes in how I feel. If a “pile of papers” is seen on “the table”, then a subsequent thought pops up, such as “I better stop procrastinating and clean my desk” … which is a judgment placed on me … but going back to our earlier discussions … is there even a “me” upon which that judgment can be placed? Increasingly, it doesn’t seem so …

Can "I" look? If “I” is a label, can it look? Or does looking happen by itself?

In this process is "you" looking for "you"? what is the “I” that is looking at the “I”?

You’re right, a self-reinforcing thought pattern/loop that gives rise to “I” and “me” can’t itself look. The looking definitely happens and it’s localized to this thing called “body”, but there isn’t a little “me” inside the body that is actually looking, let alone controlling the act of looking.

The “I” that is looking at the “I” is a thought pattern/loop as well … thoughts referring to other thoughts.

Yes please look ... have you had any experience of awareness separate from your body?

Hmmm, I don’t think so. The awareness seems to be localized to the body, expect when dreaming perhaps. For example, the body seems to be the central hub for everything that is seen, heard, felt, etc.

There have been moments lately where I’ve been asking myself “why is there something rather than nothing”? The present moment is full of “stuff happening”, and this body is part of that “stuff”, and it just seems really interesting that it’s all there, and that all of it is perceived/sensed/felt in some way or another. I don’t know what I’m trying to get at, haha, but I thought I’d share.

With peace,
Preet

[preetybird]

Hi Mike,

Just pinging you again in case you weren't alerted to my most recent post :)

With peace,
Gurpreet

[preetybird]

Hi Mike,

I hope everything is OK. Just pinging you again in case you weren't alerted to my most recent post.

With peace,
Preet

[mikenew]

Hi Preet ...

I'm back to 'normal' world ... just had two months in the protectors camp at Bentley ... stopped the CSG mining ... we had 300 in camp with 3000 people driving in when needed facing off 900 riot police ... NSW government cancelled the police operation to clear us out and suspended the mining license ... big win ... not over yet though... was fun and intense

If you're happy to continue with me I'd love to continue guiding you. Let me know. I will commit to getting back to you most days but probably not every day.

Hope you are well

Love MIke

[preetybird]

Wow! That's a BIG accomplishment :) Congratulations! Was the blockade documented in any way, or covered by any media outlets? Given the existential threats (climate change, resource depletion, environmental degradation, socioeconomic inequality, etc, etc) that we are facing today, I'm curious how this particular movement emerged and responded to one such threat. Do you see yourself becoming more and more involved in similar types of activism?

I've love to continue! Thanks for offering. And, actually, exchanging messages every few days works perfectly for my schedule as well.

Here's a quick update:

I've been trying to "look" as often as I can over these past few weeks. It feels as if I am more aware of my cacophony of thoughts, but I have yet to "see" through the illusion of the self. I've had brief moments where the concept of the self dissolves momentarily, but I soon return to my habitual self-identification.

Wishing you well,
Preet