Guidance needed please

[Sarah7]

Thanks Jerry. Take your time. No rush. S xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah,

Having given this a lot of contemplation over the last few days, the questions are not ready to be answered yet. More dialogue is necessary to complete the process. I can see even as I type this I avoid the personal pronouns because I know you will challenge them. I feel I am not through yet. As I said earlier, I feel stalemated, nowhere to go, nowhere to stay.

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry
Not to worry. Jerry Im here as long as there is doubt. OK. Thank you for your honesty.

My list contains only this, dropping the veil of the I.

Can you explain what the veil of ‘I’ is? Who or what would drop it? How would you know it was dropped?

I don't know if I can respond, I feel like I'm playing chess and have been stalemated. There is no obvious move (response), I'm stuck.

Have you been thinking responses previously do you think? Intellectually working them out? This is not an accusation – just trying to pick out where the stuck-ness is. Did the questions before this bring about a load of thoughts? Did you get stuck in them – or was there no thoughts at all – nothing coming up? (Hopefully you can remember!).

Having given this a lot of contemplation over the last few days, the questions are not ready to be answered yet. More dialogue is necessary to complete the process. I can see even as I type this I avoid the personal pronouns because I know you will challenge them. I feel I am not through yet. As I said earlier, I feel stalemated, nowhere to go, nowhere to stay.

Can you pull out where the doubt is (or whatever word you need to use) – please don’t worry about using the word ‘I’. I want you to just write – don’t think or worry about what you put down.
Do you feel bothered by my picking you up on pronouns? Is there frustration there? Fear?
Much Love Sarah xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah

Can you explain what the veil of ‘I’ is? Who or what would drop it? How would you know it was dropped?

It is the illusion of experiencing and controlling thoughts, actions and feelings through the guise of 'I'(Jerry). There is no one or thing to drop it, it would be like standing and trying to lift oneself off the ground. There would be no one to know it was dropped. Enigma.

Have you been thinking responses previously do you think? Intellectually working them out? This is not an accusation – just trying to pick out where the stuck-ness is. Did the questions before this bring about a load of thoughts? Did you get stuck in them – or was there no thoughts at all – nothing coming up? (Hopefully you can remember!).

There is no I except in thought, and most questions you ask require an I to answer them, how can that I know the answers. It seems to answer the question just enables the I. That is where the stuckness is. Dammed if I do and dammed if I don't. :)

Can you pull out where the doubt is (or whatever word you need to use) – please don’t worry about using the word ‘I’. I want you to just write – don’t think or worry about what you put down.
Do you feel bothered by my picking you up on pronouns? Is there frustration there? Fear?

No Sarah I'm not bothered, just stumped at how to answer.

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry
Lovely to hear from you.

It seems to answer the question just enables the I. That is where the stuckness is. Dammed if I do and dammed if I don't.

Do you feel there is a right and wrong way of answering them then? There isn't. This isnt a test. All we are doing is having a conversation till you are sure. You don't even need to answer them at all. So lets forget about them for a bit. OK.
Also saying the word 'I' doesn't mean you identify with 'I'. Its just a word label. Its useful sometimes to help communication.
Is seeking still on? What has changed in normal everyday ordinary experience? Has anything changed? What hasn't?
Have any expectations not been met?
Much Love Sarah xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah,

Is seeking still on?

Yes, but it has narrowed, the end is here, just not realized yet. In all the years of searching, non duality has struck a resonant chord, it just hasn't been heard yet.

What has changed in normal everyday ordinary experience?

A lot more watching less doing. By watching I don't mean in a personal way, just an awareness, a more distant view.

What hasn't?

The incessant return to the I, perspective. It is almost unconscious, seemingly all pervasive. There has been a course correction but not a shift in awareness.

Have any expectations not been met?

The expectation that the I will become just another thought.

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry

Yes, but it has narrowed, the end is here, just not realized yet. In all the years of searching, non duality has struck a resonant chord, it just hasn't been heard yet.

OK – this one I am going to pick up with the word I – What has not realized? Heard by what? Im not talking about the word – Im talking about that which the word relates. Does that make sense?
What if I said to you you are already that which you seek and that what you want hasn’t been lost.

A lot more watching less doing. By watching I don't mean in a personal way, just an awareness, a more distant view.

So if this distance has been seen – is it what is being seen that is the problem? Or something else? Is the problem what is appearing?

The incessant return to the I, perspective. It is almost unconscious, seemingly all pervasive. There has been a course correction but not a shift in awareness.

The I being thoughts here? You mean there is a serious amount of thinking going on? Or ownership – like you said earlier the use of the word I.

The expectation that the I will become just another thought.

What makes the I not just another thought? Look carefully here please.
Much Love Sarah xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah, hope you've had a good weekend.

OK – this one I am going to pick up with the word I – What has not realized? Heard by what? Im not talking about the word – Im talking about that which the word relates. Does that make sense?

Yes, there is really no one to experience these things, only thought that there is someone to experience.

What if I said to you you are already that which you seek and that what you want hasn’t been lost.

I would agree with you, but can't say it has been completely realized. I know there is not gate to cross because I am already there, but is that really all there is to this.

So if this distance has been seen – is it what is being seen that is the problem? Or something else? Is the problem what is appearing?

No, the problem if there is such a thing, is that it does not persist.

The I being thoughts here? You mean there is a serious amount of thinking going on? Or ownership – like you said earlier the use of the word I.

I don't think ownership is the word, distraction suits it better, distracted by the I thought and forgetting my true identity.

What makes the I not just another thought? Look carefully here please.

Cat looking

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry

I would agree with you, but can't say it has been completely realized. I know there is not gate to cross because I am already there, but is that really all there is to this.

So what are you waiting for? What did you expect to be different? How will you know when the "veil of I" had dropped? Is there a particular feeling or experience that you call dropping the veil of I? What does that feel like? Does it come and go?

No, the problem if there is such a thing, is that it does not persist.

What doesn’t persist? The seeing? You mean it comes and goes? Are you expecting it to be permanent?

I don't think ownership is the word, distraction suits it better, distracted by the I thought and forgetting my true identity.

You mean the seeing cant be maintained? Its not permanent? By whom or what would it BE maintained? Can this be controlled? What wants it to be controlled? Is forgetting controlled?
Much Love Sarah xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah,

The answer to you questions is "I" don't know "I" never will it is not in the reach of the "I". What did the "I" expect, it expected the self to fall into the background, allowing the true being, isness to live in the moment as the observer. This observer is not personalized, it is not an object, just an awareness of that which is.

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry

The answer to you questions is "I" don't know "I" never will it is not in the reach of the "I". What did the "I" expect, it expected the self to fall into the background, allowing the true being, isness to live in the moment as the observer. This observer is not personalized, it is not an object, just an awareness of that which is.

But neither are you the observer. That would again be another thought/feeling/sensation. Look yourself.
Even if your ‘I’ is kicking off doesn’t mean you aren’t in the moment – again – LOOK. 'I' is part of what is - it is not the enemy. Only thoughts would think it is the enemy because they want something else! Look behind and under the thoughts – go straight to sensations – NOW – do it now. See story and see thoughts but look at the sensations. Are you comparing now sensations to before sensations? What exactly is wrong with sensations NOW? Is there imagination there? Is there judgment of present sensations? Are there ideas there? You want to be feeling good all the time here and you don’t?

You want more? Something else? There is no more! This is it! Does this statement bring resistance? By what?

If you don’t think you have arrived yet because things aren’t feeling or being how you think they should – go to that feeling/thought. Where is it? Where is that idea in direct experience? Is there anything else apart from direct experience? This is it! Look.
Much Love Sarah xxxx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah

But neither are you the observer. That would again be another thought/feeling/sensation. Look yourself.

I did not intend to say "I" was the observer.

This observer is not personalized, it is not an object, just an awareness of that which is.

Which is much different, there is no subject just awareness.

go straight to sensations

There are no sensations to be found at least in my understanding of sensations, please clarify.

Even if your ‘I’ is kicking off doesn’t mean you aren’t in the moment – again – LOOK. 'I' is part of what is - it is not the enemy. Only thoughts would think it is the enemy because they want something else!

I think you are saying accept the I thought with the same importance as any other thought, don't personalize it. It has no control of what happens as does anything else, it just is. The confusion comes when it is necessary for I to see everything as it is otherwise who would know it just is as it is. I hope your not as confused by this as I am.

You want to be feeling good all the time here and you don’t?

Not true, I feel good almost always, it is not a want.

If you don’t think you have arrived yet because things aren’t feeling or being how you think they should – go to that feeling/thought. Where is it? Where is that idea in direct experience? Is there anything else apart from direct experience? This is it! Look.

"Look", here is the confusion, who are you asking to look?

[jbixman]

Hi again, the last quote is really yours not mine, occasionally the quote function puts the wrong name in the quote.
thanks

[Sarah7]

Hi Jerry

I think you are saying accept the I thought with the same importance as any other thought, don't personalize it. It has no control of what happens as does anything else, it just is. The confusion comes when it is necessary for I to see everything as it is otherwise who would know it just is as it is. I hope your not as confused by this as I am.

The ‘I’ thought is just that – a thought. Nothing else. It appears along with every other object in what is – in this. Comparison causes suffering. But only if thought has power over someone. Before you thought about it – about anything – was anything ‘wrong’? Without thought is anything ‘wrong’ or is there suffering?
Is this an intellectual struggle? Thoughts wanting to understand? Is the confusion only in thought? Is there confusion out of thought? What got labelled ‘confused’?

"Look", here is the confusion, who are you asking to look?

Yes language here is just that. There is no one to ask to look. Looking happens or it doesn’t.
Much Love Sarah xx

[jbixman]

Hi Sarah,

There is no one to ask to look. Looking happens or it doesn’t.

Profound, you've said it all there.