Looking for a guide

[Bolle]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

In the story of thoughts; yes. In reality; no.

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if any) from before you started this dialogue to now?
Please report from the past few days.

Thoughts don't carry as much impact. I would describe it as an emotional regression towards the mean. There is less stress, less excitement, less involvement etc. There is more accepting, letting go, presence etc.

3) Was there a point at which the realisation was made? Maybe a comment or something you examined that pushed you over, made you look?

I would say when I really started to chase the "I" around, and found only sensorydata. I especially remember the sense of "I" being in my stomach, and when looking, there was only sensorydata, but as looking happened, "I" seemed to be located in the head-area. When looking at that, there was only found sensorydata, but now the "I" was in the chest. This merry-go-round went on for a while until there was more of an accepting that "I" refers to different aspects of experience, but slips away when chased.

[Bolle]

I forgot to wish a MERRY CHRISTMAS for you and yours. This experience of transference is interesting. I think of you as a wise old friend, and I am very grateful :)

[Xain]

That is lovely, thank you, Bolle :-)
A very Happy Christmas to you also.

Here and the final three questions for you to consider. There may be more if anything needs clarifying.

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works as you understand it. Describe it fully as you see it now.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Do you have anything else that you would like to add?

Xain ♥

[Bolle]

Sorry I haven’t posted for a while. Been a busy Christmas with a bad internet-connection. I have pondered over the questions quite a bit.

Separate selfhood is an idea which is held and communicated subconciously as the world is experienced from unique and different perspectives. It starts in childhood and may cause trouble when held to be absolutely true. As an idea it should be treated as such.

When there is jumping onboard the "I"-train, there is an experience of "I" controlling, doing etc.

Happy New Years!

Bolle

[Xain]

Thank you, Bolle. A very Happy New Year to you also.

Separate selfhood is an idea which is held and communicated subconciously as the world is experienced from unique and different perspectives.

Could you explain a little more about what you mean by 'unique and different perspectives'?

When there is jumping onboard the "I"-train, there is an experience of "I" controlling, doing etc.

Again, could you just elaborate a little on what you mean here, please? Maybe give an example.

Xain ♥

[Bolle]

By different perspectives I meant different human beings. This is seen to be just thoughts again.

Before this text were written, there were thoughts saying "I should write". When writing there were sometimes thoughts saying "I am writing". Now there came a thought saying "I've written this text". This kind of thoughts often seem to accompany doing of tasks.

There is no I and there is no separation, but there is a lot of thoughts about both.

[Xain]

In Direct Experience, what is the experience of "different human beings"?
Can you give some specific examples?

You say there is 'no separation'. How is this experienced?

Also, could you just have another look at this question.
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Xain ♥

[Bolle]

I need some time to answer this. Will write again tomorrow.

[Bolle]

Hi there!

In direct experience there is seeing, hearing, touching etc and thoughts. In regards to "other people", there is seeing, hearing etc of what thoughts describe as "other people".

What is, is. When there are thoughts about separation, separation is felt, but although it isn't realized, what is, is, also then. It is experienced like a knowing.

There is no I that could decide, intend, choose or control events. Things happen. Thoughts about doership happens. Noone is doing anything.

[Xain]

What is, is. When there are thoughts about separation, separation is felt, but although it isn't realized, what is, is, also then. It is experienced like a knowing.

Just check this again, Bolle, just to be 100% clear.

Separation is felt when there are thoughts about it?
At that moment, how is separation 'felt'?

Does your perspective have a location?

Xain ♥

[Bolle]

I cannot find a center. Still looking for it.

Separation is just a thought. It doesn' seem important. But it was a feeling of lack.

[Xain]

Please explain this feeling of 'lack'?
How was this perceived?

Let's just fully nail this.

When there are thoughts about separation, separation is felt, but although it isn't realized, what is, is, also then

Could you give an example to fully explain/detail what you mean, please?
If you could, please point out anything 'you now realise' regarding what you write - Or what is 'real' and what is 'just a thought' in your description.

If there is a sense of perspective, is it personal? Is there an 'I' in the centre of experience?
Please explain how things are perceived as they now appear.
Maybe give examples from 'seeing' and 'hearing' if you can.

Very best wishes to you
Xain ♥

[Bolle]

I’ve written and rewritten this post several times. It is very hard to describe these things. Whenever there are thoughts trying to put together an answer, they fall apart. It seems like there is just different things happening here: there is one thought, then another one, a third one etc. The same with sensations of the different modalities; different stimuli presents themselves, one after another. It is known (after looking) that there is no “I” that experiences or is the “red thread” or “centre”. There is just thoughts and sensations happening. Still, the thoughts often lock on to different sensations and speak of them as "I".

Thoughts and sensations seem to make up the different concepts like “I”, “separation”, “presence”, “joy” etc. I could describe the experience of separation as consisting of a thought about something lacking and bodily sensations labeled negative that goes along with it (for example tension in the stomach). An example would be when there is sensations of hunger and thoughts like “I am hungry” and “I don’t have any food around”. There is thoughts about “I” and a gap between “I” and what “I” wants. This is still all thoughts, and when looking, no "I" is found.

Regarding what is real and what is thoughts: I find it hard to answer. I guess I could say that what I sense about the world (the sensations) are real, and the rest is thoughts (the concepts). Another way to put it would be to say that thoughts divide and describe the world/real. A third way to put it would be that there is just thoughts and sensations happening.

There is often a sense of a personal perspective, and an “I” in the centre of experience. There has been, and still is, a lot of looking for “I”, and no finding of it. It seems like thoughts have slowly started to come around to this fact, but they still present a lot of stuff which refers to “I”, and the relalization of "no I" seems to flicker.

[Xain]

Sorry for the some-what repetitive nature of the questioning. Your last reply cleared a lot of that up.

There has been, and still is, a lot of looking for “I”, and no finding of it.

What is doing that? What is looking for "I" and not finding it?

. . . and the realization of "no I" seems to flicker

Could you detail a little about what you mean here, please?
Flicker from what to what? From real to unreal?
When the realization of ‘no I’ flickers', what is causing it to flicker?
Are there moments when a 'real 'I' appears?

Xain ♥

[Bolle]

With "flickering" I mean that thoughts are changing back and forth between coming from a perspective of "I" or "no I". For a while there is seeing that there is nothing but sensations and thoughts. Then there seems to be a reappearance of "I", and identification with thoughts so that thoughts are not known to be just thoughts anymore. At this time, when the thoughts speak of "I", they are taken to be true, and at the time there is a sense of a "real I". Then, suddenly, there is reappearance of looking and seeing only sensations and thoughts, and no "I". This flickers back and forth. I can't find anything that causes this.

This could be described as to different moduses. Sometimes there seems to be an "I" looking, at others times there just seems to be looking happening.