requesting a guide

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. That's a lovely report about your day. Sometimes it may feel nothing has changed, and sometimes you may notice you're less apt to get hooked into reacting personally. Those reactions are reflexes, habits, that don't disappear overnight. If you continue to notice them sometimes, it doesn't mean there's anythng wrong.

When it comes to describing what we believe to be real, we enter subtle territory where language is wildly inadequate. That's why we're so adamant here about sticking to what we experience directly.

In that light, I can't help noticing a shift in your responses between the first few and the last:

The "I" is awareness. it's an awareness machine.

I know what you're saying here. I know there are many teachings that make statements like this as part of an educational path. And I'm not trying to deny the sense that you are present. That would be impossible. Of course there's always a sense of presence, a sense that experience is happening (as you said).

Sticking with what's experienced directly when talking about "I" and awareness:

Do you experience an "I" that's creating awareness?
Do you experience an "I" that's an object in any way?
Do you experience awareness as an object?
Do you experience a relation between two objects, "I" and awareness?
If there is no separate "I" (an object), does it even make sense to say that "I" is awareness or "I" is aware?

Now what can you say about "What is aware?"

With love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Hi Steve,

I couldn't sleep so I'm writing.

I'm so used to speaking in metaphors to help clients understand that I shift from direct experience without realizing it.

Do you experience an "I" that's creating awareness?

No- not at all- I'm not creating anything

Do you experience an "I" that's an object in any way?

nope--I is not an object

Do you experience awareness as an object?

Awareness is not an object

Do you experience a relation between two objects, "I" and awareness?

No- there are not 2 objects - just awareness happening.

If there is no separate "I" (an object), does it even make sense to say that "I" is awareness or "I" is aware?

No it doesn't- there is no "I" being aware- not anything "being aware"

Now what can you say about "What is aware?"

I don't know what is aware- awareness is happening- nothing is being aware-- that's all there is -- just awareness- This is strange trying to articulate this...

Thanks again Steve!

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. I hope you got some sleep eventually! :)

I'm so used to speaking in metaphors to help clients understand that I shift from direct experience without realizing it.

I understand. I do it here too! In essence every word and every sentence is a metaphor. These words are no more capable of pointing directly to experience than the man in the moon can share green cheese with a Martian unicorn. The best we can do is try to eliminate spurious conceptualizing.

I don't know what is aware- awareness is happening- nothing is being aware-- that's all there is -- just awareness- This is strange trying to articulate this...

Nice! Yes, it's very strange. Because it's a point where words fail utterly. We notice there's something happening that's undeniable and unavoidable. "Awareness" seems as good a word as any. And anything else we try to say about it definitely crosses the line into storytelling.

Even "something happening" can feel as if it's saying too much, because nouns and verbs imply categories that can't really be found when we look. But none of this stops us from using language in all its richness. We're simply using it more knowingly.

Two questions for today:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

Are there any questions about what we've covered in this investigation?

With love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Hi Steve,

I eventually got some sleep! I'm surrounded by kitties snuggling with me so even when I can't sleep it's lovely. But everything seems pretty lovely--

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

I had doubt at first -- if you remember- the sensations of fear and anxiety arose and I didn't know why-- i remember trying to avoid actually feeling it and it followed me for a while. It was based on a story of doubt because this seeing is subtle I wondered if if were really happening. If somehow I made it up... that this couldn't happen to someone like me. That's fallen away now. It's strange that it's so ordinary - I don't like using these words because I've heard them used to describe this and would like to explain it better or more originally-- but ordinary awareness seems like the closest way describe it in it's totality.

Are there any questions about what we've covered in this investigation?

There are no questions about what we have already covered. The questions are more about living this way.

Here are a few confused thoughts--

If there is no "I" to facilitate this life how does that work with being responsible for ones actions? For instance, I wanted to get up and go do yoga this morning but I didn't- How does it work with making plans and following through. The illusion is that this takes away being responsible for living this life. Which is fine- it's a pain in the ass to believe the illusion of power. It's frustrating to believe we have control and knowing we do not-- knowing this truth is a relief. So, I think what I'm asking is how do I get myself to do stuff that's good for me? And I suspect I know the answer already which is don't resist with what is and go with the flow and trust.

I was going to delete the above because it seemed ridiculous after I wrote it- Just asking questions and writing about them usually clarifies things without needing an answer from other sources.

Thank you so very much! You are a wonderful and gentle guide.
Nancy

[journeygirl]

There may be some me left when I look at myself in the mirror. just a thought-- or maybe that's not possible at this point.

[journeygirl]

Im pretty sure I'm making up shit.

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy.

Im pretty sure I'm making up shit.

Ha-ha-ha! Well, you already know that thoughts are pretty much shit, and that you can't control them, so it's not a big surprise!

It's strange that it's so ordinary - I don't like using these words because I've heard them used to describe this and would like to explain it better or more originally-- but ordinary awareness seems like the closest way describe it in it's totality.

Yes.

Just asking questions and writing about them usually clarifies things without needing an answer from other sources.

Yes, it can. The kinds of questions you're raising are natural ones, and I think you see that the only possible answers come from living. It's when you think you do have the answers that you can get into difficulties!

Thank you so very much! You are a wonderful and gentle guide.

Thanks for the kind words. It's my pleasure, really. It's very rewarding.

Here's one more set of questions. These are designed to sum up our work here and to expose any area that we may not have covered fully.

Answer from your direct experience of the last few days. No stories, no making stuff up. :) It's very straightforward. No trick questions. Just look at what you directly experience and report honestly, as you've been doing.

You can take them one at a time, all at once, or in groups. It's entirely up to you. There's no rush.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

With love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Hello Steve,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

I cannot find a separate self when I look -- life just happens. The story of a separate self was a believed illusion and then practiced and solidified for years. There has never been a separate self.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The world told me I was a somebody when I was young. My mind was programed by everyone I interacted with telling me that "I was good or bad girl, a burden, a sister, a daughter, and that I was my body and mind". I was taught I was in control of my life and adopted a belief that I was the thoughts that arose in my mind. I was self-conscious and felt separate in many ways. The first way was feeling there were several selves in my head arguing with one another about what actions to take that would make me feel more comfortable with myself. I would use drugs and developed an image that was separate of how I felt about myself. I believed that if I could make people think I was this person (I created) then I would feel less separate from others and people would love me. In some weird way that I cannot imagine now I assumed that my thoughts were me and I was controlling them and my behavior. This separate sense of self seemed to entail a director that told the other self what to do. The other self wouldn't listen or fail to do what the director would command so the director would shame and punish the other self. It's a sad story having these selves beat each other up with words and accusations.

The other illusion of self is being separate from our experiences. The experience happening is everything that I can sense and see right now. I'm looking at my wall and my cats-- the whole thing is not separate-- it's all happening in this experience... without separation- The seeing doesn't see out there --it all connected to the awareness happening. This is hard to explain and I don't know if I fully understand it anyway. There is a glimpse of understanding-- like I brush up against this truth without seeing it completely.

I'm sleepy and write more tomorrow.
GN--

[journeygirl]

The other separate self is thinking I'm separate from others. I know conceptually that we are all made of the same stuff but there is not a direct experience of merging with others -- unless they are in the room with me. Then they would be a part of the awareness that is happening. But again, that is fuzzy and not clear.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate self but I think I'm paranoid that I'm going to forget.. or this is supposed to be more obvious. I KNOW THAT'S JUST THINKING THOUGH! :-)

) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel empty in my chest -- not negative - it's hard to describe- my chest area has a new pronounced lightness- less focus on my head - I notice many times how when I get up and do something it isn't a me making any moves. It just happens. I also well up in tears quickly when someone is speaking authentically. My sleep has been unpredictable. The thoughts that arise argue less-- (I need to look at this more). When I look I still cannot really find thoughts or describe them in anyway but then a doubt comes in that says, "why are these thoughts happening still? this isn't what this should be like". but then I move on-- or sometimes I write the thoughts to you and YOU get to hear them - yikes.

More later--

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. Let's make sure there's total clarity on question (1) before we go any further. I'll post some specific things to look at a little later today.

With love,
Steve

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy!

I cannot find a separate self when I look -- life just happens. The story of a separate self was a believed illusion and then practiced and solidified for years. There has never been a separate self.

There is no separate self but I think I'm paranoid that I'm going to forget.. or this is supposed to be more obvious. I KNOW THAT'S JUST THINKING THOUGH! :-)

Yes, just thinking.

One thing that sometimes gets in the way is the expectation that unpleasant feelings will go away when it's seen that they're not about a "you." Eventually maybe they will, and maybe they won't. There aren't any rules.

There's often a tendency to be less personally reactive to some situations. You've noticed this in your experience. But there's no guarantee that you'll never have unpleasant reactions again. It just doesn't work that way. So if you're not responding as gracefully as you'd prefer in some instances, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong. It doesn't mean you've forgotten anything.

You're noticing feelings and thoughts that seem to be about fear. You've already discovered that these aren't about a "you" and that they just arise uncontrollably. I don't think you really believe otherwise.

Look! What is the crux of the doubt or fear here? What questions remain unanswered that you may not have articulated yet? Hint: Don't go inventing speculative stories. You may find that when you look directly, there's nothing really there. :)

With love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Look! What is the crux of the doubt or fear here? What questions remain unanswered that you may not have articulated yet?

There is no fear here directly in this moment. There isn't ever fear in the moment-- it's always about the future. I see doubt as a habit of the mind.... a bunch of boo-hicky! My technical term.

No questions- trust is arising:-)!

Thanks,

Nancy

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. That's excellent. The questions you raised earlier about awareness and about others are very natural. Those often entail continuing inquiry after the gate. We don't claim to offer "total non-dual realization," or whatever anyone wants to call it. We keep to the specific goal of revealing the separate-self illusion and seeing it collapse when it can no longer be believed.

Would you like to tackle the six questions again, this time with a minimum of storytelling? Yes, question 2 does ask for a little storytelling, and question 6 is your soapbox if you want it, but the others require reporting strictly from direct experience. Please don't equate the idea of honesty with storytelling. When I say "honesty" I mean honest about what you experience directly, not about what you think! :)

Or if you don't feel ready for that, I'm happy to cover other questions or concerns. Entirely up to you. Let me know!

With love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Thanks for clarifying-- the storymaker upper is not dead.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No- not ever- the separate self is not true-

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of self appears feel like an "I" runs the show and contols the life that's lived in this body. It believes there is an "out there" causing suffering to the "me". It makes thinking, hearing, seeing, tasting and moving happen. It has the power to think and make things happen. The self is an interpreter and a commentator about how the outside life effects the me and believes and shares what is right or wrong about every situation.

Now I see that I can't find thoughts- There is no "I" to make anything happen- I see the mind actually takes credit after an action. It's becoming more and more obvious every day.

Thanks ) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It's difficult to describe- It doesn't feel like anything. just relaxed and calm- more consistantly calm and open- feelings have arose and left more quickly than before. Meditation has felt warm and flowy... vibrations happening. I noticed this during the retreat- there is no resistance with not wanting to meditate. That's changed from before. Meditation feels open and thoughts come and go- There is no meditator- it's like space.

It feels relieving- there is so much suffering in believing in a self. It feels easy- I don't have to control anything.

That illusion really sucked. Haha. Couldn't help a little story.

Thanks Steve!

Nancy

[journeygirl]

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I don't understand this question-- Made me look and start this process or when I realized there is no self?