Seeking a Guide : )

[goneforgood]

Good Morning Karen,

I must take my time with the first half of your interrogation, lol! I fell asleep last night staring at an apple & spent the morning drinking tea staring at the plant. I need more time with the seeing & hearing exercises & will report back as soon as I feel that I may have something.

Very good to see you taking time.

Poor choice of words. Absolutely not, there is no place anywhere where life is not.

Please choose your words carefully. Words are all we have here, and if we want to communicate as accurately as possible, our words must be accurate.

Yes, I see that thoughts will come & go whether invited or not, there is no stopping them. In this knowing now, there is some freedom from feeling like "I" have to try to do anything, just let it be.

Good, yes.

Thoughts are like ether, air, non tangible, what could nothing attach to? Another label, another thought. Building the story higher & higher.

Yes.

Yesterday it was thinking about how grateful I am to you & then sensations/feelings in the body occurred, tears. I'll keep an eye on this type of situation & well, every other one too!

Good to see you observing more closely.

B/A: I will pay attention to the above stuff. How thoughts, feelings, emotions seem to have real effect on body. Or is this too just a belief?

Are physical sensations real in your DE?

It has been noticed that pointing comes with yellin'..

LOL. It was one shout, darling heart. And you took notice.

goneforgood wrote:In DE, is there an inside and outside of the body?
DE: As I close my eyes & the body is quiet there is nothing to indicate any difference.
DE: Sitting here trying to feel where my face ends, without touching, the ending cannot be felt.
There is no boundary.
B/A: Life/God could not be fenced in by this body or by a tree, etc

Very good. What about with your eyes open? Can you see your face?

Yes, I noticed this upon first look. If it weren’t called a plant, why not call it a foot?
DE: Now. There is the body. There is seeing of a plant. There is seeing of space in between body and plant.
B/A: It is seen that space is just a label, in this instance it would be referred to life/God, as there is nowhere where God is not & it seems to be the seeming empty space that creates the illusion of separateness.

OK. Good.

Robin, when I look, when seeing happens from this slice of life, the matrix is not seen, pixels are not seen. Images & forms are seen. Karen ducks for cover

I don’t understand what you are saying here. Can you describe it another way?

Karen ducks for cover

Can you say more about this? Who is ducking for cover, and why?

DE: Seer cannot be found, seeing is automatic as is the seen. I look now at the books on the bookcase, close my eyes, open them, it’s instant. Taken for granted & instant.

Very good. Just seeing happening.

P.S. B/A: I think (LOL) this was already mentioned, but really been examining thoughts & how they are not tangible, they are fleeting, they cannot be touched, seen, felt, smelled or heard but sometimes they seem so powerful, but that is BS.

So, next time a “powerful” thought is experienced, can you identify what makes it feel powerful? Who or what believes it has power?

Having completed all the above, please answer this question for me:

Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

Thankyou Karen.
With Love,
Robin

[Kallie]

Hello Dearest Robin,

This is just a quickie. Couldn't resist looking here. Long day, Very tired. Want to respond properly so will wait till tomorrow, Friday~ Until then, gigantic virtual hugs to you x0x Karen

[goneforgood]

Dearest Karen,
Enjoy your lovely deep rest and write to me when you're ready.
Love, Robin

[Kallie]

Dearest Robin,

I hope that all is well down under. Other than cold weather, all good here. Won't know anything about yesterday until Monday.

So here goes:

Please choose your words carefully. Words are all we have here, and if we want to communicate as accurately as possible, our words must be accurate.

It is so true & so easy to have misunderstandings due to miscommunication. Language, a unifier at times and at others a great divider.

Kallie wrote:B/A: I will pay attention to the above stuff. How thoughts, feelings, emotions seem to have real effect on body. Or is this too just a belief?

Are physical sensations real in your DE?

Yes, physical sensations are real in DE.

LOL. It was one shout, darling heart. And you took notice.

Attempt at humor : )

What about with your eyes open? Can you see your face?

Nope.

Kallie wrote:Robin, when I look, when seeing happens from this slice of life, the matrix is not seen, pixels are not seen. Images & forms are seen. Karen ducks for cover


I don’t understand what you are saying here. Can you describe it another way?

Not sure if you are familiar with the movie The Matrix. The illusion is seen thru & liberated (lack of better word) see things on earth as a matrix/code, pixels, no longer separated forms. Good movie.

Kallie wrote: Karen ducks for cover


Can you say more about this? Who is ducking for cover, and why?

Another attempt at humor. Ducking for cover in anticipation of a possible yelling. Sorry Robin "me" gets carried away with joking & teasing sometimes~

Kallie wrote:P.S. B/A: I think (LOL) this was already mentioned, but really been examining thoughts & how they are not tangible, they are fleeting, they cannot be touched, seen, felt, smelled or heard but sometimes they seem so powerful, but that is BS.

So, next time a “powerful” thought is experienced, can you identify what makes it feel powerful? Who or what believes it has power?

Thoughts, feelings, emotions are non tangible, cannot be visibly seen, cannot be touched, smelled, tasted or heard. They are all constructs, ideas, stories made up by mind, they have no power unless a story is made up. How can nothing do anything? Thought stacked upon thought. Before I arrived at LU, the illusion of physical separation had been seen thru, but there was some lingering attachment to a belief that thoughts that went thru this head were owned by this body. It dawned on "me" at how ridiculous that thought was (there is no physical separation, but a separate mind? LOL) & stopping seemed the only sensible thing. Then LU turns up & in one last attempt, take another shot. Thru the exercises it is now seen how personal ownership of ANYTHING, body, mind, spirit, thought is just an illusion. There is only life/God orchestrating all that we see, taste, touch, hear, smell & choice of anything is a delusion. Everything just happens. Hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling are all on auto pilot, happen almost, if not completely instantly & are taken for granted.

BIG B/A: It seems to "me" that there is a lot of propaganda "out there" about how our thoughts control our lives, our destiny. Change your thoughts, change your life, you know the hype. I have seen thru these DE exercises that thinking we can control our thoughts and therefore our life & it's outcome is utter BS. When I was depressed a couple of years ago, I couldn't change my thoughts, I was stuck, I was still deluded. On the flip side today, when this body has some challenges there is no depression, because it has been seen, that there not only is no separate Karen, Robin, dog, tree,it has been seen that "we" are all inextricably connected as one, life. The biggest thing learned was to let it all go, give it all up to life/God, surrender, accept, get out of the way & let it flow. Enjoy the ride~ even when it gets bumpy. TRUST the process.

Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

NO, none.

Thank you Robin once again for your pointing. I hope you have a most awesome day. As always I look forward to your next response.

With Much Love,
Karen

[Kallie]

Hi again Robin,

goneforgood wrote: Kallie wrote:B/A: I will pay attention to the above stuff. How thoughts, feelings, emotions seem to have real effect on body. Or is this too just a belief?

Are physical sensations real in your DE?

Yes, physical sensations are real in DE.

Yesterday I was thinking about how grateful I am to you & then sensations/feelings in the body occurred, tears. I'll keep an eye on this type of situation & well, every other one too![/quote]

Need to clarify this to ensure on right track. I think I used incorrect language, when I said yesterday I was "thinking" about how grateful I am to you & then sensations/feelings in the body occurred, tears. What should have been said was what really happened is that feelings of gratitude were "felt" tears & thinking occured afterward.

No life doesn't need to label love, gratitude, joy, compassion, etc..it just experiences it. Same with anger, fear,jealousy etc, they are experienced. Feelings & emotions happen, they can be DE. Seemed to group them into one clump but the distinction between THOUGHT, emotion/feelings had to be seen & I think it has been.

With Love,
Karen

[goneforgood]

I'm sorry, Karen, but half way through your last posts, when I came to your "joking", I stopped reading.

I am not willing to continue reading your posts while they contain time-wasting jokes, and large paragraphs preceded by B/A.

My time is valuable. I do not want to have to wade through your writing, trying to decipher what is serious reporting and what is joking, teasing, BS, or whatever else you want to call it. I am too busy for that.

I take this work seriously and I like to stay on topic. I find it tiring and ultimately boring to read irrelevant answers that you have deliberately left in for me to read.

Perhaps my style does not suit you, and you would like to ask for another guide. That is perfectly OK, and I will understand. It may be that someone else has a lighter approach more suited to your own.

Please think about how you would like to continue. I can hand you over to another guide, or we can continue on together with a fresh agreement that everything we talk about on here is DIRECTLY concerning your seeing truth, and passing through the gate.

I am completely fine with whatever you choose.

With Love and Respect,
Robin

[Kallie]

Hello Robin,

My apologies if you have taken offense, but just as you could no sooner change whatever you are "I" cannot do so either. We are whatever we are & sometimes life throws us a mismatch.

I do take this work seriously, but as in life not to seriously, I laugh a little, sometimes a lot. There is a lot on my plate of life & maybe it helps get me thru the day.

It has really always confounded "me" on just how you expected me to communicate without the use of words, again, sorry if I use to many for you.

Neither one of us should have to change who we are, whatever we are. Life will find us better matches.

How shall I go about asking for another guide? Should I just repost on the board or ask an administrator?

Apologies if you felt you wasted your time. Our time was enjoyed by "me" and "I" felt like progress was being made.

Far thee well Robin.
All the best to you.

Much Love to you,
Karen

[Kallie]

Robin,

There is no need for you to do anything. It has been taken care of. Have popped out an email to an admin.
If I get re-assigned, I get re-assigned, if I don't, that's fine to.

We are both awesome entities, with completely different styles, perspectives, clumps of experiences.
The old "me" might have been crushed but the new "me" does not resist things like this, they happen, life moves forward.

Again, all the best.
Karen

[goneforgood]

Hi Karen,
Thankyou for being so understanding, and likewise I understand your perspective here. No problem.
I have advised the other guides that you are seeking a new guide. It may take a day or two...not sure, but you will be taken care of.
All the best to you too, and perhaps I'll see you in our facebook forums once you pass through the gate.
With Love and Sincere Good Wishes to you.
Robin

[vinceschubert]

Hi Karen, vince here.

The old "me" might have been crushed but the new "me" does not resist things like this, they happen, life moves forward.

i do get what you mean in a general sense, but just to clarify, i take it that by putting me in inverted commas that you were making the point that you were using the word in a linguistic only manner.
Tell what you meant by "me". (joking allowed) What does this word point to ?

love

vince

[Kallie]

Kallie wrote:The old "me" might have been crushed but the new "me" does not resist things like this, they happen, life moves forward.

i do get what you mean in a general sense, but just to clarify, i take it that by putting me in inverted commas that you were making the point that you were using the word in a linguistic only manner.
Tell what you meant by "me". (joking allowed) What does this word point to ?

Yes. Language only. Trouble seems to come from language here at LU & in the world at large. It is realized after the fact that incorrect words were used & ya can't go back & edit. Like when it was written to Robin that we are both awesome entities, I was like duh, wrong language, but difficult habits to break. We are not separate entities we are both just life in it's awesomeness. What does "me" point to? Nothing. A label. Becoming an empty vessel as more & more old ideas & stories are realized & let go of, but, for the sake of operating in this world, me would refer to said vessel called Karen.

Thanks for giving this a shot with me. Best effort will be given.

With Gratitude,
Karen

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Karen.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

vince

[Kallie]

Vince,

Good morning Karen.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

vince

The illusion of separate self starts when the body comes into this world, we are given a name/label by our parents, taught additional names/labels of things, & on & on. A role to play within a family structure, further solidifying the concept of separateness. We are taught that certain things are mine/ours & others his/hers and that we should protect what is deemed ours. Many of us are explicitly taught that God, Source, Life is separate. Expectations are put upon us by our families, cultures, egoic self to try to live up to what is labeled success, whether that be financial, spiritual etc. In a nutshell the illusion of a separate self is nothing but a made up story of unquestioned thoughts & beliefs that carries on generation after generation. Innocent ignorance at it’s finest.

A lot of this was initially seen while doing the 12 steps this year with a sponsor. With her help old story lines & ideas that mind seemed to be protecting were obliterated. More was undone with ACIM & now here I am at LU, where a lot has been seen thru DE exercises.

Now that the illusion has been seen & the old stories & ideas are being shed, I see how a role is still being played but rather as a character/actor in a book or movie. Sometimes it’s like watching a show, sometimes it’s funny, others it’s not, but nevertheless it is still a show & all the lines have been written.

With Appreciation
Karen

[vinceschubert]

Hi Karen, How does it feel to see through the illusion of a separate self ?
What is the difference from before you started the dialogue with Robin ? Please report from the past few days.

Can you describe the 'turning point' ?
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen?
Give examples from your experience.

love

vince

[Kallie]

Hi Vince,

Hi Karen, How does it feel to see through the illusion of a separate self ?
What is the difference from before you started the dialogue with Robin ? Please report from the past few days.

Can you describe the 'turning point' ?
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
Do you make anything happen?
Give examples from your experience.

love

vince

I had seen/glimpsed the illusion before I came to LU, but there was some hang up about mind, thoughts still being owned & controlled by this body, which could be seen was not separate. The ridiculousness of this "thought" that seemed to be building a nest was seen & I was done, fried. The day after hands were thrown in the air in a gesture of surrender a facebook feed is seen & in an effort to understand this last bit Kallie signed on to LU. This issue is what made me seek to see. Look..

The DE with Robin definitely helped push me further along with everything but mostly, well, entirely with thoughts.
Nothing owns them where as before there was that ridiculous thought that believed this body did. It is a relief to know that there is no ownership,of anything that is a bit stunning but a relief.

Do I decide, choose, intend, control any events in life? No selection is made by life.

Do I make anything happen? No, life happens without assistance & life happens better without resistance, now that the old beliefs, ideas & stories are being cleared out of the way.

Like I said there was definitely confusion about control. I see it clearly now though, that whatever happens, happens without consent or invitation. In reality (?) now, since there is no separation anywhere can anything really be labeled good or bad, positive or negative anymore when you realize that it's all just life, living.

Have a great day!

With Love,
Karen