Hi S,
That ('relax a bit...') sounds indeed like a good thing. Let those last two questions 'be there', in a relaxed way of course and post when something emerges...
T.x
Thread for Biggles
Re: Thread for Biggles
An update... My last post here was on April. I had the final questions and seemed to get slightly stuck on the last one re. control. So I decided to take a while to reflect and then come back. And then I was kind of overtaken by events. I generally felt very open, relaxed and happy - great sense of empathy and joy at times. Felt something had really shifted despite having some doubts to reflect on re illusion of self. Then I began to get insomnia, slept really badly for quite some time after which some very deep rooted negative volitions began to arise - guilt, criticism, judgement... These became extremely intense and very painful indeed to the point where I thought I was going mad.... I just sat with them and reflected that they were not happening to anyone, just arising in awareness - but difficult not to identify with all this with very little sleep and not many resources.... Anyway, I thought that this was it, my life's going down the pan but these volitions died down after 5 or 6 weeks...
And in fact what has been particularly interesting is that since then, when such volitions arise, they pass very quickly. Yes, these deep rooted samskaras are not actually happening to anyone. One of the most confidence inducing things of recent months has been that when these volitions are seen, they can often dissolve immediately in loving awareness. The experience is as if awareness sees negative volition with friendly, joyful recognition. The experience is actually of friend meeting friend. And there is some kind of ensuing reaction of joy. This was amazing, unexpected….. It felt and feels like a real gift. It doesn’t feel as if “I” am doing it. On these occasions it feels that there can be no experience, however hateful, which is not made of gold. Expect the deep rooted smaskaras - the doubt, the fear - but welcome them as old friends.
Doubts were still arising as to whether self has been seen through... But there was a real sense that something very significant had shifted... I just spent 12 days on a retreat. I spent part of the retreat reflecting on literalism and metaphor. At the end of the retreat I saw clearly that the self is a metaphor. And a metaphor cant control anything! I mentioned my dream to you last e mail... I dreamt I was under siege by Zulu warriors. There was a newspaper with an article about the coming slaughter and I was trying to rewrite it, rewrite history or something - eventually I knew I couldn't and had to go out with my spear and die with all my imperfections.. "I" had to die....
So feel as if self has been seen through. And it would be nice to finish the process....
Biggles
And in fact what has been particularly interesting is that since then, when such volitions arise, they pass very quickly. Yes, these deep rooted samskaras are not actually happening to anyone. One of the most confidence inducing things of recent months has been that when these volitions are seen, they can often dissolve immediately in loving awareness. The experience is as if awareness sees negative volition with friendly, joyful recognition. The experience is actually of friend meeting friend. And there is some kind of ensuing reaction of joy. This was amazing, unexpected….. It felt and feels like a real gift. It doesn’t feel as if “I” am doing it. On these occasions it feels that there can be no experience, however hateful, which is not made of gold. Expect the deep rooted smaskaras - the doubt, the fear - but welcome them as old friends.
Doubts were still arising as to whether self has been seen through... But there was a real sense that something very significant had shifted... I just spent 12 days on a retreat. I spent part of the retreat reflecting on literalism and metaphor. At the end of the retreat I saw clearly that the self is a metaphor. And a metaphor cant control anything! I mentioned my dream to you last e mail... I dreamt I was under siege by Zulu warriors. There was a newspaper with an article about the coming slaughter and I was trying to rewrite it, rewrite history or something - eventually I knew I couldn't and had to go out with my spear and die with all my imperfections.. "I" had to die....
So feel as if self has been seen through. And it would be nice to finish the process....
Biggles
Re: Thread for Biggles
Hi S.,
Great to see that and you back here to finish off the process. I reckon from this perspective, and 8 months later, it would be helpful to respond to the final questions again from 'where you are now'. Are you up for that?
T.x
Great to see that and you back here to finish off the process. I reckon from this perspective, and 8 months later, it would be helpful to respond to the final questions again from 'where you are now'. Are you up for that?
T.x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Excellent, ok, first of all, have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?
Then:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
T.x
Then:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
T.x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Thanks T
Will post something tomorrow afternoon
x
Will post something tomorrow afternoon
x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Hi T
Yes, the illusion of a separate self has been seen through.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no separate self, me, I - not has there ever been. Right now, for example there are sensations of fingers on keyboard, sound of computer and hum in ears, a blur of colour..... And a sense of awareness, aliveness..... This is not "me"... just experience, energy.... There is no me in this experience....
Me is just a thought or metaphor overlaid on direct experience, overlaid on the sense of awareness and aliveness. It isn't an existing entity.
"Me" is a metaphor attempting to point to the body-mind. Which itself is not autonomous as it's in constant flow, being acted on by other body minds, outside agencies.... There are no edges or boundaries to actual experience. So there is just direct experience which is unable to be effectively explained or articulated because the articulation is not the experience....
So "me" is a thought, an attempt at articulation.... It's not an experience.
It isn't there!
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now
Em, I guess I started to explain that in the above question.... When it starts I'm not sure... In the beginning was the word. And the word was taken literally. And that's when the problems began I guess.... The self is a product of language and labelling and the tendency to then take all that literally... A belief in the self is part of the deep, deep human tendency to literalism.... The self - a particular name, Sarvananda - used for practical, linguistic and survival purposes - but taken as an independent, autonomous unit.... An important part of this LU process was when my previous guide pointed out the fact that I was confusing "consistency of perception" with a self..... The self gets confused with - and identified with - consistent and repetitive habit and perception.
Biggles x
Yes, the illusion of a separate self has been seen through.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no separate self, me, I - not has there ever been. Right now, for example there are sensations of fingers on keyboard, sound of computer and hum in ears, a blur of colour..... And a sense of awareness, aliveness..... This is not "me"... just experience, energy.... There is no me in this experience....
Me is just a thought or metaphor overlaid on direct experience, overlaid on the sense of awareness and aliveness. It isn't an existing entity.
"Me" is a metaphor attempting to point to the body-mind. Which itself is not autonomous as it's in constant flow, being acted on by other body minds, outside agencies.... There are no edges or boundaries to actual experience. So there is just direct experience which is unable to be effectively explained or articulated because the articulation is not the experience....
So "me" is a thought, an attempt at articulation.... It's not an experience.
It isn't there!
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now
Em, I guess I started to explain that in the above question.... When it starts I'm not sure... In the beginning was the word. And the word was taken literally. And that's when the problems began I guess.... The self is a product of language and labelling and the tendency to then take all that literally... A belief in the self is part of the deep, deep human tendency to literalism.... The self - a particular name, Sarvananda - used for practical, linguistic and survival purposes - but taken as an independent, autonomous unit.... An important part of this LU process was when my previous guide pointed out the fact that I was confusing "consistency of perception" with a self..... The self gets confused with - and identified with - consistent and repetitive habit and perception.
Biggles x
Re: Thread for Biggles
I can see how that's helpful - but can you look even closer and see whether there is an actual consistency of perception / habit etc. or is this another mental fabrication?An important part of this LU process was when my previous guide pointed out the fact that I was confusing "consistency of perception" with a self..... The self gets confused with - and identified with - consistent and repetitive habit and perception.
T.x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Yes, okay, going deeper.....
"Consistency of perception" is mental fabrication, an attempt to articulate or understand (and grossly simplify) experience.. There is, in reality, the ever changing arisings of experience in each moment... awareness, aliveness... "Consistency of perception" is conceptually overlaid on to direct experience...
S x
"Consistency of perception" is mental fabrication, an attempt to articulate or understand (and grossly simplify) experience.. There is, in reality, the ever changing arisings of experience in each moment... awareness, aliveness... "Consistency of perception" is conceptually overlaid on to direct experience...
S x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Ok, good - here are the next 2 questions:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
T.x
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
T.x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Hello T...
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I think it was probably seen in April.... Certainly something really shifted then - but there was doubt and a lot of fear. The whole LU process has been a kind of culmination of the last ten years or so. And since I finished LU in April, after all the really horrible stuff receded, there has been a growing confidence that something major had shifted, that there was no self there... That there's a beautiful, empty space in which phenomena rise and fall...But doubts still arising at times... The last week the doubts have dropped away and it does feel... kind of wonderful really. And surprisingly still and quiet. Felt a certain nervousness coming back on here - associations I guess - and today has been full of work and madness... But generally in last few days there has been a great sense of open-ness and relaxation.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
As I say, it seems a culmination of things.... But the last few days of the recent retreat something seemed to click. Nothing dramatic. Think being around a lot of people who had gonr through the LU process or similar and were quietly confident that self had been seen through - that we could talk to one another about all this without embarassment - made me look more closely at the doubt I'd been experiencing, gave me confidence that self had indeed been seen through.... When you, on the retreat, at one point, said "There is just this..."... And there was an inner response here of "Yes", and a relaxation... And dwelling on literalism and realising that the self was indeed a metaphor, a concept "pushed me over"... Well it had been seen before I reckon, but on the last day of the retreat there was a really sharp focus, a quiet knowing.....
S x
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I think it was probably seen in April.... Certainly something really shifted then - but there was doubt and a lot of fear. The whole LU process has been a kind of culmination of the last ten years or so. And since I finished LU in April, after all the really horrible stuff receded, there has been a growing confidence that something major had shifted, that there was no self there... That there's a beautiful, empty space in which phenomena rise and fall...But doubts still arising at times... The last week the doubts have dropped away and it does feel... kind of wonderful really. And surprisingly still and quiet. Felt a certain nervousness coming back on here - associations I guess - and today has been full of work and madness... But generally in last few days there has been a great sense of open-ness and relaxation.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
As I say, it seems a culmination of things.... But the last few days of the recent retreat something seemed to click. Nothing dramatic. Think being around a lot of people who had gonr through the LU process or similar and were quietly confident that self had been seen through - that we could talk to one another about all this without embarassment - made me look more closely at the doubt I'd been experiencing, gave me confidence that self had indeed been seen through.... When you, on the retreat, at one point, said "There is just this..."... And there was an inner response here of "Yes", and a relaxation... And dwelling on literalism and realising that the self was indeed a metaphor, a concept "pushed me over"... Well it had been seen before I reckon, but on the last day of the retreat there was a really sharp focus, a quiet knowing.....
S x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Ok, good - here's the last two:
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
T.x
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
T.x
Re: Thread for Biggles
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
I think one of the reasons why so much fear and doubt arose in April was to do with fact that if it was really and truly acknowledged that "I" had no control over events in Life, then death and the possibility of severe illness etc etc would also have to be really accepted..... My recent dream the day after I got back from retreat, when I realised that I was unable to rewrite history or control events and that I would have to go out and die in battle, that "I" would have to die seems really significant.... There was no doubt that I was going to get a spear in my ribs and there was a reluctant but certain courageous acceptance.... It was as if there was a walking out into life - very vulnerable, without armour, but open and excited... So there is an acceptance that there is no controlling events... There is no me to choose, decide or control.... Stuff happens, decisions are made but there's no kind of HQ or autonomous decision maker.... My writing snarls up, gets difficult.... I sleep on it, go for a walk, in extreme cases go to the seaside... The answers just arrive more often than not but "I" dont do the decision making... Just a big mystery and no knowing what's round the corner... A huge complex of conditions and arisings and energy with nobody at the helm....
6) Anything to add?
Nothing to add.
Over and out
S x
I think one of the reasons why so much fear and doubt arose in April was to do with fact that if it was really and truly acknowledged that "I" had no control over events in Life, then death and the possibility of severe illness etc etc would also have to be really accepted..... My recent dream the day after I got back from retreat, when I realised that I was unable to rewrite history or control events and that I would have to go out and die in battle, that "I" would have to die seems really significant.... There was no doubt that I was going to get a spear in my ribs and there was a reluctant but certain courageous acceptance.... It was as if there was a walking out into life - very vulnerable, without armour, but open and excited... So there is an acceptance that there is no controlling events... There is no me to choose, decide or control.... Stuff happens, decisions are made but there's no kind of HQ or autonomous decision maker.... My writing snarls up, gets difficult.... I sleep on it, go for a walk, in extreme cases go to the seaside... The answers just arrive more often than not but "I" dont do the decision making... Just a big mystery and no knowing what's round the corner... A huge complex of conditions and arisings and energy with nobody at the helm....
6) Anything to add?
Nothing to add.
Over and out
S x
Re: Thread for Biggles
Hi S,
Great, thanks. I'm just reviewing / reflecting to see if any further questions emerge.
T.x
Great, thanks. I'm just reviewing / reflecting to see if any further questions emerge.
T.x
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