Guide for a Buddhist requested.

[smudge]

Beautiful Phoenix!

What could be simpler than seeing this – It is uncomplicated, transparent, open to inspection, nearer than near, given in its entirety…empty of everything, and at the same time capacity for this endlessly changing view out, room for this amazing world? To find out, just look. Seeing the space here is simpler than simple.

Form is emptiness and emptiness is form, sounds so unreachable didn't it as a concept, especially as a Buddhist goal, and yet, this is it!

And so I ask again, from direct experience is there any doubt that there is no self but instead nothing and everything.

Love
Smudge x

[phoenix]

You are right!
It did seem so unreachable as a concept. When I had first heard that

Form is emptiness and emptiness is form

I couldn't even begin to grasp it.
When it's experienced, then it is so simple!

from direct experience is there any doubt that there is no self but instead nothing and everything.

No doubt in the moment.
Nothing is present. Everything is present.
Everything is Empty. Form is Empty. And yet, despite being Empty, there is form.
It is beautiful (and such a relief)

Is resting in this, "resting in the Nature of Mind???"


But what I have found throughout the day is that that realization/understanding/feeling does not stay. I have to work at it (Look) in order to see/experience it again and again. I have read that once you have seen it, then you always will see it. But that does not seem to be. Like those Escher drawings. One way of seeing it, the staircases all go one way. But then you see they actually go the other was also. And so you must look again and again to see it both ways. Because otherwise you get stuck at looking at with only one viewpoint.

And so now I am Looking again.
Thank you so much. I will continue this for now.
Love and light,
Phoenix

[smudge]

Hi Phoenix,

Interesting choice of colours :-)

I can see you see but need to feel confident in this. Can it ever be not true whatever the forgetting or stories say?

A lot of what you say is post gate exploration, there is more and more.

Yes the labelling machine will keep pumping out stories but can you ever not re investigate the truth of those stories again, especially the story that says you are a separate existing self?

There is ONLY THE MOMENT, when you remember you had forgotten, that is a story about another moment.

I would like to ask you some questions to clarify your seeing, are you ready?

Warmest wishes
Smudge

[phoenix]

Hi Smudge,
(I did not think about how it would be difficult to read the turquoise on a white background - Sorry. I tried to read my post later and felt bad for challenging your eyes:)

[quote="smudge"]I can see you see but need to feel confident in this. Can it ever be not true whatever the forgetting or stories say?[/quote
It is funny, but some sort of obstacle arises when I read this and try to answer it. Like a fog. Then thinking is not clear and I read and re-read this. So here I am diving into that fog sensation.................No it can never not be true. Hope to say more on this later.
Not sure what is happening. Just deleted a wordy explanation that went in circles.

Need to sit a bit more. ...
Really that resistance is strong when I read the questions. Will answer them tomorrow. But just so you know where I'm at today:
Today I spent too much time watching movies with my family. I got late for an appointment and had to run out the door without adjusting my mind frame for going outside. Going from something like watching t.v. which consumed me with "artificial" stories, and then immediately being outside with the fresh air, trees and snow, I was jolted. What was the story? I looked automatically. And found that I had been consumed by a story, but then was suddenly in "reality" but I felt like I was not there in reality. And then realization dawned that it was just another story labeled "reality outside". I looked back at myself and could not find me. The forms or scenery around also were empty. I saw them as thoughts...... Did that make sense? And so now, I see that the direct experience becomes more and more automatic.

Hope you have a great day.
Phoenix

[smudge]

Hi phoenix,

Quoting is simply highlighting the text you want to quote and then clicking on the quote symbol, when you actually post it will look all pretty.

Seeing through self is just as simple, you look and you cannot find!...and the journey continues.

However it seems we must look under a few more rocks first. So lets turn towards the resistance, explore, what is it protecting?

And well done for deleting a 'wordy explanation' you saw the story. I see you see, you just need to see. Resistance is normal, its death for the ego, expect of course the ego is a concept and never existed.

x

[phoenix]

Hi Smudge.
Yes I look and cannot find and it feels like such a relief.

But then later, gross sensations arise and feelings of being weighted down by the huge size and intensity emerge.

However it seems we must look under a few more rocks first. So lets turn towards the resistance, explore, what is it protecting?

That is a very insightful question. Looking at that, it appears my ego is the resistance. Under those huge sensations are many thoughts rising up. Thoughts and feelings of great suffering. A myriad of "my" different stories that are labeled "suffering" "pain' etc.
A question arises, "If I can look and see that form is empty and empty is form, then what do these stories even matter?" "These stories are a moot point. " They do not exist. And the sensations cease for awhile - only to come with a greater onslaught. It feels like that thing labeled Ego, kicking and screaming. It does not like being looked at and it wants control. Really that is just another story. But on one level - I think that is what this Resistance is and it is protecting all of those stories of "victimized" "trauma" etc. Stories that I don't even identify with any longer. But yet they are coming, these large guttural sensations and stories.

Just exploring them now has abated these heavy sensations at present. At the moment things appear more clear (that is an absence of heavy feelings and thoughts.)
Thanks for the suggestion to explore this resistance. For now it has helped and I feel eager to continue.
a t b
phoenix

[smudge]

Wonder-ful Phoenix,

It is so clear you see and this description you give...

" They do not exist. And the sensations cease for awhile - only to come with a greater onslaught. It feels like that thing labeled Ego, kicking and screaming. It does not like being looked at and it wants control.

...is called falling and its 'common' after going through the gate, there is aftercare support for this when we have finished this dialogue. There is a Trungpa quote I like that I thought of when I read your post today "'The bad news is you are falling, the good news is theres no ground!"

You are telling me of a changing mind, sometimes open, sometimes turbulent, yes every state of mind passes AND now you can see the absence of self whenever required whatever the state yes?

So today explore choice: Take 2 possibilities of which you might ordinarily choose between, e.g: Tea or coffee, blue pen or black pen and then sit and see if you can find the choice point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

Love
Smudge

[phoenix]

Hi Smudge,
your kindness helped me feel more hopeful. Sometimes it seems I have bitten off more than I can chew.

and this quote you sent elicited laughter

There is a Trungpa quote I like that I thought of when I read your post today "'The bad news is you are falling, the good news is theres no ground!"

Thank you for that!

You are telling me of a changing mind, sometimes open, sometimes turbulent, yes every state of mind passes AND now you can see the absence of self whenever required whatever the state yes?

Yes, BUT the absence of self is seen only when there is Looking or when it is quiet. If busyness or emergencies happen, I do not see the absence of self. For instance yesterday I was baking in the oven, something caught fire and fell out of the oven and somebody was about to try to help, but I knew they would get hurt. At that moment - there was no gap in thoughts for me to Look and realize the absence of self. I was consumed in the story of it. And at work I am so busy, busy and not Looking. Then I do not see.

So today explore choice: Take 2 possibilities of which you might ordinarily choose between, e.g: Tea or coffee, blue pen or black pen and then sit and see if you can find the choice point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

Choosing between coffee and tea. First the labels reach my cognizance and a thought is elicited. A rememberance of coffee and tea. Then an emotional sensation is elicited in response to the thoughts of each. And a strong happy attachment to the thought of coffee arises. A sensation of pleasure is felt "in the body" when attaching to that thought. And then a thought comparing the two thoughts of coffee and tea happens and coffee is chosen.

When I look at that choosing moment - I cannot find where that choice is coming from. Especially when I look again -There is an absence of self but the thought arises from seemingly no where.

Phone call now.
Love to you,
Phoenix

[smudge]

Hi Phoenix,

Yes, BUT the absence of self is seen only when there is Looking or when it is quiet.

So this is about expectations. Did you expect seeing through the delusion of self to be different? Like a big open wow all the time? How does it feel that it is different to that?

I was consumed in the story of it

Where is the I that was separate from the story here? Is there ever an I that can be consumed by thoughts, can thoughts DO anything?

When I look at that choosing moment - I cannot find where that choice is coming from. Especially when I look again -There is an absence of self but the thought arises from seemingly no where.

Yes it all just happens, no controller, no chooser. Can YOU control thoughts getting in the way of 'your' no self experience?

I look forward to hearing back,

Smudge

[phoenix]

Hi Smudge,

So this is about expectations. Did you expect seeing through the delusion of self to be different? Like a big open wow all the time? How does it feel that it is different to that?

Hmmm. That is true. It is about expectations. Yes, I suppose I expect a falling away of turbulent thoughts and emotions. Or at least seeing through them when they arise. It feels something like going into a closet and expecting it to open like the Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, but it is not open to another world. It is just a closet.
At times when the seeing arises spontaneously, then it feels like there is so much potential because everything is empty.

Where is the I that was separate from the story here? Is there ever an I that can be consumed by thoughts, can thoughts DO anything?

The story is just thoughts strung together. When I look for the I that is separate from the story - I cannot find the I.
The I can never be consumed by thoughts. And the thoughts can not do anything other than arise and pass away.
In talking about being "consumed by thoughts" it means that there is a belief in the story of those thoughts run together.

Yes it all just happens, no controller, no chooser. Can YOU control thoughts getting in the way of 'your' no self experience?

I Definitely cannot control the thoughts! Looking at them does seem to slow them down and lengthen the gaps between them. Looking therefore assists the no self experience.

Have a great day,
P

[smudge]

Hi Phoenix,

It feels something like going into a closet and expecting it to open like the Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, but it is not open to another world. It is just a closet.
At times when the seeing arises spontaneously, then it feels like there is so much potential because everything is empty.

This is clear and all true, yes!

When I look for the I that is separate from the story

Always, yes!

So now here are some final questions to clarify the seeing, I look forward to hearing.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
 
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. 
 
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
 
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 
 
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
 
6) Anything to add?

Warmest wishes
Smudge x

[phoenix]

Hello Smudge,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate entity of myself, I or me. Not anywhere, in any way, shape or form. No there never was a me-entity. When looking, an “I” can never be found. There is no color, there are no boundaries, and no where can an “I’ be found. There is only this moment and “I” is not found. Past memories of “I” are only thoughts. Looking at each thought shows that each thought is empty.

Tomorrow question 2 will be answered. Weariness of body and mind is felt this moment. A label of “sick” arises and the story of “sleeping to get better” is put together.

Thanks for your kindness and guidance,
Phoenix

[smudge]

Thats clear Phoenix,

It is clear you see thoughts for thoughts now and not evidence of an 'I'.

Take you time to answer all of the questions. I am on a weekend retreat today and so will next write to you on Sunday evnening GBT.

Thanks for your kindness and guidance

Absolute pleasure. xx

[phoenix]

Hi Smudge,
I hope your retreat was wonderful!

Here is what I have been Experiencing:

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Maybe the Illusion of the Separate Self is easier to explain by exploring it from the absence of it......
Just completed that typing exercise again - the one without using the labels "I" "me" or "my." In addition to removing those labels, I also tried to remove the labels "teeth" "body" "arm" "computer" etc. And what was left was just
"Thinking"
"Sensation"
"Breathing"(which was a sensation),
"Feeling Emotions "( e.g. anxiety, bored etc). These feelings were just sensations and eventually felt to be just vibrations
"Feeling Body Sensations" These started as gross heavy sensations and eventually were just felt as vibrations
"Hearing" (and this eventually just became a vibration sensation)
"Movement" which began to cease as all became vibrations (so typing became difficult:)

During this exercise, there ceased to be a separate self. All seemed to pause. Thinking paused. Vibrations were felt. And the environment was just experienced in vibrations : Hearing also just became a sensation, Non-separate from self. Feeling the chair and the air just became non- separarte sensations. Non-separate from "self." There was no separate Feeling, Feeler. And no separate Hearing, Hearer. Direct Experience. There was a feeling of Oneness.

The Illusion of the Separate Self comes about with labelling thoughts and sensations. There becomes "my foot" "my hands" and this labelling proceeds to "that sound from the fridge."
When we were babies (before we learned language), There was direct experience in the form of "tasting" "feeling" "seeing." As we learned language, labels were applied (especially the label of "My Name") and the Illusion of the Separate Self was formed more and more. We became separate from the environment and this became more engrained as we were two year old talking machines. Sensations became experienced as "my arm hurts," "I'm hungry." Labels which are really just thoughts were applied. In each thought, a story of "I" "me" "my" was born.
{As an aside, "I" had the understanding that some of the times when we are not experiencing the Illusion of a Separate Self are when we are: Exercising and reaching that 'Runner's High';
Dancing and are non-separate from the Music;
Having Unbridled Passionate Sex in which there is no separateness from our partner;
Experiencing Great Pain (I was thinking of the movie "Fight Club" - his followers described the moment when he put acid on their hands, and the acid was eating away at their skin and they experienced excruciating pain as 'the greatest moment in their lives' - because there was absence of self) }


As this post was long, I will make separate posts for the following questions.

Love,
Phoenix

[phoenix]

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The Feeling to see this is both: 'Wow!!!' & 'Is this it???'
The Feeling is both: "This was So Simple" & "Holy Crap this was Intense!"
At this moment I can't believe how beautiful it is. And yet so simple.
But the past week I feel I have been battered by "My Ego" having a temper tantrum and experiencing every illness under the sun. And feeling Great Aversion to continuing.
What is different from before starting this dialogue ....There is increasing Awareness. Less labels. More Seeing Stories as Thoughts. More of Experiencing Sensations Without Labeling them.
An increasing Experience of Form being Empty and in that Empty, is Form.
Feeling less attached to the story. Less attachment to "emotional crises" and also for that matter, Less attachment to "my" things and "my family" - but also a deepened love for them.
Also what is different, is these days I often feel such a deep profound love and compassion for my patients. A feeling of Oneness with them.
Another difference is also experiencing the Stillness in Chaos. God, there has been a lot of chaos this week! But that chaos is just sensations, stories like a tornado and in the midst of all that, underneath of all that is Stillness, Non-Separateness