Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:17 pm

great stuff... you're right in the zone you need to be in (so to speak)...
Imaginatively putting myself in a baby’s position I see that without the labels and the thoughts, it’s all just happening.
are you seeing this directly?... imagination for the purpose of this exercise is simply more thinking...
Seeing – the eyes tingle and can feel the air, eyelashes felt whilst blinking, shapes, colors, movement is visibly happening.
LOOK closely and gently... can you know that you have eyes in this moment... or is that simply what you think the experience is... can you find the label 'eyelashes' anywhere... what is your experience of 'air' without the explanation 'this is air'
Thoughts are happening in response to the visual happening… feelings are happening in response to the thought and visual happening.
"When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that."

really LOOK at your experience... can you directly see 'response'... can you directly see any connection whatsoever between what is SEEN and what is COGNIZED... or is "in response to" an explanation of your experience and thus simply thinking...
Feeling – emotional response to visual stimuli and thought, as in seeing this feelings arise, and thinking that feelings arise, it is also just happening…
get right into the middle of these emotions and separate out what is direct SENSATION and what is simply thinking..."only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognised"...
Touch – in this case is happening in response to thought, finger clicking keys in response to thinking, touch also happening in response to body sensation as in finger scratches tip of the nose.
great stuff...very direct... as 'I' sit here... typing is happening... thinking... sounds... colours... labelling 'screen'...thinking... emotion... clicking keys... pain in 'hand'... movement... seeing...

you won't be able to write to me without labels but are you seeing 'beneath' them quite clearly?

what is 'finger' like... describe 'keys' ...'tip of nose'
Thinking is happening.
yes!
The same with hearing….
yes!
I have drawn a line under what I actually know, or what I actually experience. “I” is a thought that happens based on past experiences, here and now “I” is thought and thinking is happening.
great... this is where we need to go next... when you are deeply LOOKING, notice how 'I' arises... is it an image of yourself... the sound of your inner voice... an idea of what you are feeling emotionally... how does 'I' arise...

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Hey

“are you seeing this directly?... imagination for the purpose of this exercise is simply more thinking...”

Thinking is happening whilst experience is happening whilst keys are tapping…whilst thoughts of answering Gunasara arise.

“LOOK closely and gently... can you know that you have eyes in this moment...”

No, eyes is a label (thinking)

“or is that simply what you think the experience is...”

Yes it’s what I think.

“can you find the label 'eyelashes' anywhere...”

Only in thinking.

“what is your experience of 'air' without the explanation 'this is air”

Sensation.

Mettasattva wrote:
Thoughts are happening in response to the visual happening… feelings are happening in response to the thought and visual happening.

“really LOOK at your experience... can you directly see 'response'... can you directly see any connection whatsoever between what is SEEN and what is COGNIZED...”

No.

“or is "in response to" an explanation of your experience and thus simply thinking...”

It’s thinking.

“what is 'finger' like... describe 'keys' ...'tip of nose'”

Sensation is happening.

“great... this is where we need to go next... when you are deeply LOOKING, notice how 'I' arises... is it an image of yourself... the sound of your inner voice... an idea of what you are feeling emotionally... how does 'I' arise...”

The sound of my inner voice.
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:21 pm

The sound of my inner voice.
is there a 'Mettasattva' making that sound arise?

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:53 pm

No.
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:21 pm

keep looking if you can...

how else does 'self' think it arises?

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:29 pm

I don't know
Mettasattva

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:31 pm

It thinks itself ? Urs starting to lose me a bit...
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:28 pm

It thinks itself ? Urs starting to lose me a bit...
great... how many times do you need to look round the room for a unicorn before you twig that it never existed in the first place...
I don't know
who doesn't know?

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:34 pm

There isn't a who to know, Mettasattva is a thought, it's just thinking...
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:42 pm

it's confusing looking for a separate self when there isn't one to find...

so go back to LOOKING at WHAT IS... settle and relax...

keep LOOKING at seeing, hearing, sensing, cognizing...

and when you are ready...

take a look at this quote from earlier in your dialogue with Paulo...







Nothing exists outside the present moment…experienced. In a way its like saying nothing exists after death and I feel unable to comment on that until death is experienced….is there anything outside of the present moment? “I” would have to experience the “outside of the present moment to answer that fully.
In the present moment that is experienced “I” would have to so no, nothing exists outside that experience of the present moment. If its within “my” experience then its in the moment. Does that make sense?
how would you express this now?

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:02 pm

it's all happening right here, right now...
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:21 pm

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. I could say it's just another experience but what does that mean? I have already stated, many times that I CAN NOT locate a "me' or "I" outside of the body and mind... so the "something" I am refering to is what happens when the body and mind is born and I DON"T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I'm not going to lie to u or myself and say otherwise, my experience tells me there is choice to some degree, or maybe influance would be a better word. If there is an experience of anger in my body I can either scream and shout or hit someone or breathe and relax...which one happens does seem down to "me'
is 'me' a Mettasattva?

can you try to describe what 'me' is here...

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:01 am

No

and No...I've been trying and it's going in circles...
Mettasattva

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Gunasara
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Gunasara » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:03 am

so if there is no 'Mettasattva' how does choosing happen...

how does anything happen for that matter?

LOOK next time you are doing anything... is there a self directing ...

relax into everyday seeing... who is in charge of life?

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Mettasattva
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Re: Requesting a guide...Ilona or Pablo please...

Postby Mettasattva » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:24 pm

why does having a sense of choice or there being a sense of choice mean someone or something has to be in charge?
Mettasattva


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