Looking for assistance

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe,

I'm off today looking after my nine year old son, Jack, who's ill, so I'm able to post earlier.

. I sat with this idea and the mind persisted to just go blank. I guess I can't find a connection to a self in any of it. Or can't understand the connection. The word self, or I or me, is something I've never found in direct experience.

Great! You've looked into all these areas and come up with a blank. No matter where you look no self can be found. In direct experience you've found so many things, but none of them is the self. There's a good reason why you can't find the self, it's not there :-)

. Can sight be considered a sensation?

When you look into sight, do you find a separate seer, or is there just seeing? How about hearing sounds. Can you find anything that could be described as a hearer, or does hearing just happen?

. On another note, yesterday someone said something very nasty to me. I took it extremely personally and spent the rest of the day very upset. It still lingers.

Strong feelings and emotions can be the trickiest thing to look through and it's best at this stage no to dwell on them too much, as the idea might arise of 'I'm not getting this'. Even when the self is seen though emotions will still arise and it can take time to see through the stories. But when it is seen that there is no self these stories have nothing to attach to and have less power.

One thing you can do when strong emotions arise is to take a step back and look into these feelings. A strong sense of self might arise. But are these feelings who you really are? If you can become aware if these feelings then how can they be?

I think at this stage it may be useful to look into your feelings in general. All manner of feelings may arise during your day, but like sights and sounds are they the self? Or do they just show up, not owned by anyone? What do you find when looking into feelings in direct experience? (You might find pleasant feelings easier to look into when doing this inquiry. Find something to do that you enjoy and look into that).

This might take some looking into. Be gentle with yourself and if it gets too much then take a break. Let me know what you find and come back with any questions if you have them.

Speak to you soon,
David x

[Zoe Mac]

Hey David,

I'm sorry to hear of your son being ill, I hope nothing serious?

Shall jump in.

"Can sight be considered a sensation?"

When you look into sight, do you find a separate seer, or is there just seeing?

Within direct experience, I find no seer, just the seeing.

How about hearing sounds. Can you find anything that could be described as a hearer, or does hearing just happen?

Hearing like seeing just happens. There's no evidence of an entity behind it, doing it, or having any control in it.

"On another note, yesterday someone said something very nasty to me. I took it extremely personally and spent the rest of the day very upset. It still lingers."

Strong feelings and emotions can be the trickiest thing to look through and it's best at this stage no to dwell on them too much, as the idea might arise of 'I'm not getting this'. Even when the self is seen through emotions will still arise and it can take time to see through the stories. But when it is seen that there is no self these stories have nothing to attach to and have less power.

Thanks for this- Is helpful to almost have the permission to let go of worrying about my current dependence on feelings. Almost a weight off. However, the strong effect they have on pulling in the idea of me as a self worries me.

One thing you can do when strong emotions arise is to take a step back and look into these feelings. A strong sense of self might arise. But are these feelings who you really are?

Gawd, who I really am. Big question. I don't know if they are. They are very convincing in the story they tell of me...

If you can become aware if these feelings then how can they be?

I'm not sure I know what you mean by this. (But id like to :) ) Looking at the statement you are suggesting anything that I can become aware of can't be who I really am? Do you mean because that would be looking out at a foreign thing? Or kind of in the same way that a thought can't think, feelings can't be me if there is another "me" watching/ observing them?

I think at this stage it may be useful to look into your feelings in general. All manner of feelings may arise during your day, but like sights and sounds are they the self? Or do they just show up, not owned by anyone? What do you find when looking into feelings in direct experience? (You might find pleasant feelings easier to look into when doing this inquiry. Find something to do that you enjoy and look into that).

I tried to look at feelings as you suggested this evening on a long evening walk. While I tried to observe feelings that arose, I found it in this instance almost impossible. Is a feeling or emotion just a set of thoughts taken on and identified with as truth? As personal? Maybe that's why I find them so hard to capture or monitor. They don't appear when I'm looking for them, when I have the intent to watch them. And I can't observe them when they occur as I am wrapped up in believing them.

This might take some looking into. Be gentle with yourself and if it gets too much then take a break. Let me know what you find and come back with any questions if you have them.

You're right, I don't think I've done enough (or any really!) in this area of observation and will try to watch in the coming days to see if I can answer your other questions in this regard if you like? Thanks for the reminder to be gentle. I dish that advise out to friends on a regular basis, but never seem to remember to do it for myself. Kind tip.


Look forward to hearing from you,

Zo x

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe,

Jack's fine thanks. Just a bit snotty!

So there's no hearer or seer found? Great. We're running out of places for the self to hide. Not much else it could be. Now we're looking to see if there's a feeler.

. you are suggesting anything that I can become aware of can't be who I really am? Do you mean because that would be looking out at a foreign thing? Or kind of in the same way that a thought can't think, feelings can't be me if there is another "me" watching/ observing them?

Exactly. Just like there is no hearer, just hearing, then there is no feeler, just feelings.

. While I tried to observe feelings that arose, I found it in this instance almost impossible.

Did it lead to a feeling of frustration? Great, look at that instead :-)
Play with this. Observe anything that arises, because if it can be observed then it can't be you.

Keep looking and let me know how things are going.

Speak to you tomorrow,
David x

[Zoe Mac]

Hey David, just a quick update. Have had a pretty feral reaction to some travel vaccines. Will still endeavor to get back to you tonight, but feeling a bit frail so if not will definitely get onto it in the morning..

Best wishes, hope you are well.

Zoe x

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe,

Oh dear, hope you're okay. Rest up and we can get back to it tomorrow.

Hope you're feeling better soon,
David x

[Zoe Mac]

Thanks David, feeling much better :)

I'm really finding a road block when it comes to observing feelings in direct experience. It seems like when I have the intent to watch them they don't appear and so I can only sort of study them in hindsight and I don't really trust what my head says about "what happened". Perhaps the trouble is just that I've never tried in watch feelings in this way. Could you recommend any pointers?

There's not really frustration associated with it at this stage, just blanks when I take the time to try to capture and watch feelings.

Shall keep trying to look and hopefully start to be able to examine feelings that arise.

Hope your son is better and you are well.

Zoe x

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe, how are you doing?

It can be tricky looking into feelings and emotions. One thing you can do is to look where the felling or emotion is centred in the body. For instance, if you find you are enjoying listening to a piece of music that stirs you emotionally, look to see where in the body that emotion is situated: chest, heart, head? This obviously works best with something that you have a strong response to. Same goes for emotions when you feel strongly about something, where in the body does the sensation arise?

Have a look a let me know what you find.

Speak to you soon,
David x

[Zoe Mac]

Hey David, still overdoing it and feeling SO old and tired but looking forward to kissing it all goodbye and putting my feet up in Bali. ;) How are you?

It can be tricky looking into feelings and emotions. One thing you can do is to look where the felling or emotion is centred in the body. For instance, if you find you are enjoying listening to a piece of music that stirs you emotionally, look to see where in the body that emotion is situated: chest, heart, head? This obviously works best with something that you have a strong response to.

I'm listening to my favourite music of the moment- Fink. there's a sense of calm that comes. Softness. Extended inhalation and exhalation. It feels like the sensation occurs in the head, but I feel like this is kind of a guess- how can I know there's something occurring in the head. I can find no head in direct experience. Oh man im getting confused.

Wait that's a feeling isn't it. Nope, now that I try to look at the confusion its gone. Gah! No its not its back...

Confusion feels like it arises in the head. No, now the heart area. Ohhhhhhh! It seems to happen wherever I look for it to happen. Really don't know what im doing

Zo x

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe, I'm good thanks. Looking forward to the weekend :-)

. It feels like the sensation occurs in the head, but I feel like this is kind of a guess- how can I know there's something occurring in the head. I can find no head in direct experience. Oh man im getting confused.

The important thing here isn't that you can label the sensation or where it appears. What I was trying to get you to do was just to be able to locate the feeling. If it appears in the head area, don't worry about the direct experience of 'head' just focus on the sensation. Once you have located the sensation you can then become aware of it, and realise that what you label 'feeling' or 'emotion' is really just a sensation. Thought then steps in an labels this sensation, maybe saying something like 'I am happy', when in reality your direct experience is just a sensation situated somewhere in the body. Try and see feelings and emotions as things you can become aware of. They are just like sounds and sights, appearing yes, but to no one. They just are.

Confusion probably isn't the best emotion to focus on. If you don't get it the confusion will get worse, but if you do get it the confusion will disappear. You will then get more confused, which you'll then focus on........ in one big unsatisfying loop.

Have another look, maybe listening to music again. As always, be kind to yourself, and if you get too confused take a break, especially as you say you are feeling tired. (How is this tiredness showing up, btw? What are the sensations? Is it a self that's tired or do the sensations just show up? What's the direct experience of 'tired'?)

And if it all gets too much just think of you with your feet up in Bali :-)

Have a great weekend. Speak to you soon,
David x

[Zoe Mac]

Hey David,

Hope you had a lovely weekend :)

Once you have located the sensation you can then become aware of it, and realise that what you label 'feeling' or 'emotion' is really just a sensation.
Thought then steps in an labels this sensation, maybe saying something like 'I am happy', when in reality your direct experience is just a sensation situated somewhere in the body. Try and see feelings and emotions as things you can become aware of. They are just like sounds and sights, appearing yes, but to no one. They just are.

Ok, baby steps. (SORRY- must be so frustrating for you!)
I've started to notice the feeling when they arise (not always, just on occasion) as if sort of from the third person perspective. Kind of like "Oh look- That's a really strong sense of panic and tightness there in the pit of your chest" From there I am having a lot of trouble dissecting it any further, or seeing where it comes from/ what its doing etc. Seems very slippery. As per your suggestion I will try to focus more on watching these sensations. Sunday is coming along very quickly and once I'm settled in Asia hopefully all the mania of the last couple of weeks will die down and allow me to focus fully on this. (Look at me- Hopes for the future, that isn't here. LOL) Really feeling quite out of touch with the things picked up at LU in the last month at the moment. :(

How is this tiredness showing up, btw?

Its actually not all that unpleasant when I really look at it... Shows up as kind of a foggiest of head, a sense of delirium that makes me giggle and see things as a little bit nonsensical. Of course there's the body aches and fatigues - other symptoms of a low immune system like cold sores, skin breakouts lifeless hair.

What are the sensations?

Right now in direct experience-
- An ache, multiple aches that seem to be running in waves almost the way you see the northern lights move around. OOP no, now its very localised. Mind says it is a pain in the back, but theres nothing to prove that.
- A dry sensation, chaffy kind of like sandpaper in my mouth
- Itch on my nose. Hand just scratched it of its own volition
- Itchy sensation in the region my mind says is an eyelid.
- Pin pricks on skin.
- Slightly pixilated vision for lack of a better word.

Is it a self that's tired or do the sensations just show up?

Once broken down I see that tired is an assumption born of lots of tiny little sensations and occurrences. Theres no self to be found behind the tiredness, or behind the individual sensations. Only the concept of one that I keep buying into.

What's the direct experience of 'tired'?

Oh. I think I answered that prematurely - Above. :)

Thanks David,


Hope to hear from you soon. Xxx Zo

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe.

I had a great weekend thanks. Hope things are finally coming together for you.

Some great looking you've done there. Don't worry about it being frustrating for me, you're doing great.

. Once broken down I see that tired is an assumption born of lots of tiny little sensations and occurrences.

That's right, isn't it? You might say 'I am tired' when what you really mean is that lots of sensations and symptoms show up that thought gives one great label to. Language makes it seem like there is some entity that is tired, but when we look this entity cannot be found. There's just sensation.

. Theres no self to be found behind the tiredness, or behind the individual sensations. Only the concept of one that I keep buying into.

So have you seen through the illusion? In direct experience have you yet found anything you could call the self? Don't answer straight away, but look. Outside of any thought that claims otherwise, is self an illusion?

Don't worry if it seems confusing or you are shaky about the answer at first. Sit quietly and look for a couple of minutes. What do you find? Anything? Thoughts? Feelings? What is your direct experience?

Looking forward to what you have to say about this. Speak to you soon.

David x

[Zoe Mac]

David so sorry. Nerves are shattered haven't slept in a couple days just trying to get everything done. An idea of a life that was tied up into a neat little bow. I kinda see somewhere deep that I am stressing myself out unnessecarily with all this bit haven't allowed myself a second to stop.

I feel like if I look at LU in this state any answers I give will be dismissive and rudimentary at best. Given your last post I want to be sure to look as deeply as I can with these answers. Would you mind if I didn't get back to you until have settled in the new accom and sorted out for myself a new phone? Say the 9th or 10th. Apologies, have found things very overwhelming the past couple weeks.

All the best and hope you're smiling,

Zo xxx

[Hector's ghost]

That's absolutely no problem, Zoe. Take as much time as you need. As you say, this needs you to be settled for you to feel comfortable looking. Let me know when you've found accommodation and have settled into your new home. I'll be here when you're ready to pick this up again, so even if it takes a couple of weeks then that's fine. PM me.

Hope everything goes smoothly for you. Speak to you soon,

David x

[Zoe Mac]

Hi David,

I hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Am experiencing a large amount of loneliness and many other seemingly unpleasant feelings presently. Do you think it would be better to wait until they are resolved before resuming enquiry or to jump right back in?

So have you seen through the illusion? In direct experience have you yet found anything you could call the self? Don't answer straight away, but look. Outside of any thought that claims otherwise, is self an illusion?

I don't think I've seen through the illusion. I have found no self in direct experience, other than the mind telling me I'm one. But I still feel deeply routed as a self. Threatened, fearful, anxious, defensive- Protecting the well being of this "self" I supposedly am.

Don't worry if it seems confusing or you are shaky about the answer at first. Sit quietly and look for a couple of minutes. What do you find? Anything? Thoughts? Feelings? What is your direct experience?

For some reason the mind keeps saying: "If theres no me, then everythings hopeless. You're absolutely utterly alone. Nothing means anything." I can't join the dots or understand why these thoughts are arising. It seems a sort of assault.

Will watch and look a bit more.

Am looking at the edges of the vision. Theres nothing there. None of the perceived world beyond.

All there is is fading light. Heavy warm air. Tropical rain. Sensations of itchy bug bites. Hair tickling a cheek. Gecko's calling. Thunder. Frangipanis falling to the floor and pattering of water on the roof. Sore feeling where a tummy could be, but that's conjecture. Motorbikes.

Thoughts are streaming. They go like; "You don't get it. There is a you. Just because you can't find it, isn't proof it doesn't exist. What are you doing with life? Where are you going to find happiness?" But actually it doesn't speak at me, it speaks as me, like;
"I'm going to be alone forever." "I'm no good." Feelings of rejection and such.

Where do they come from? I'm not choosing any of these emotions or thought processes.

Gawd, pretty confused at the moment.

In terms of seeing through the illusion, I understand that I've not found a self. Can see (at times) that I'm not in control of this body or the happenings going on before me. I just can't seem to go any further than that though I reaaaaaaally want to. Am a little fearful that there is nothing further. That its all a big hoax. Am hopeful that its not.

Would love to know what I need to be doing or looking for. Feel firmly entrenched in the idea that I am ME.

Big thanks,


Zoe

[Hector's ghost]

Hi Zoe,

I'm tempted to suggest holding back while you get settled, but as you are keen to keep looking I suggest we carry on but taking things slowly. There's no hurry.

. For some reason the mind keeps saying: "If theres no me, then everythings hopeless. You're absolutely utterly alone. Nothing means anything." I can't join the dots or understand why these thoughts are arising. It seems a sort of assault.

Remember, we're not looking to get rid of anything here, just seeing how things have always been. Part of the illusion are the stories we tell about ourselves. To suggest that everything is hopeless would just be another story.

Sounds like you are experiencing a lot of strong emotions at the moment. Keep looking at these, not necessarily to see through the self, but as a kind of investigation. Just be an impassive observer, the way you conduct your direct experience is good. Keep looking.

You seem to be experiencing some fear, here. How is this fear experienced? Is it something real or just a collection of sensations?

. Where do they come from? I'm not choosing any of these emotions or thought processes.

Yep, you're not :-)
Keep investigating like this. Don't be too hard on yourself or try to force anything. Just observe. What do you find?

Now you've started posting again I'll check in regularly.
Speak to you soon,
David x