Hi again,
Yes. It frequently comes in stages, and that is fine. There is a lot to look at in my post. I threw in the stuff about time because of the "continuum" thing in the Sevenfold Analysis. The fictional self seems to have a sense of persisting through the fiction of time. Take your "time" :) with that post. Post when ready.
Requesting a Guide
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
As I meditate on the Sevenfold Reasoning, there is a feeling of clear space that comes. This is very helpful and at the same time indescribable. Something deeper being reworked somehow...
Your time questions are a great exercise also. I've known there is no "time" for awhile and have often experienced the expansion and contraction of time around experience. Sometimes a minute passes like a century and other times a day feels like a moment. There is nothing in seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting that "proves" time is passing. And it is more reaffirming to take it to the level of the senses. At first "I" thought about seeing a clock face but the marching of hands around a clock face do not prove the existence of time passing either! Nada...time is only a languaging tool that assists people to make agreements...I'll meet you then...there is no other evidence.
I have no idea where I am in this process and whether the Gate has been crossed or not. There are many shifts that are happening in my experience that tell me things are different. Yet there are also moments of, "oh yeah I'm supposed to be looking at it like this"...catching myself at the old games.
Again, there is much appreciation for the support!
Jane
As I meditate on the Sevenfold Reasoning, there is a feeling of clear space that comes. This is very helpful and at the same time indescribable. Something deeper being reworked somehow...
Your time questions are a great exercise also. I've known there is no "time" for awhile and have often experienced the expansion and contraction of time around experience. Sometimes a minute passes like a century and other times a day feels like a moment. There is nothing in seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting that "proves" time is passing. And it is more reaffirming to take it to the level of the senses. At first "I" thought about seeing a clock face but the marching of hands around a clock face do not prove the existence of time passing either! Nada...time is only a languaging tool that assists people to make agreements...I'll meet you then...there is no other evidence.
I have no idea where I am in this process and whether the Gate has been crossed or not. There are many shifts that are happening in my experience that tell me things are different. Yet there are also moments of, "oh yeah I'm supposed to be looking at it like this"...catching myself at the old games.
Again, there is much appreciation for the support!
Jane
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
Yes. The Sevenfold Analysis is a good one to look at. It kind of deconstructs one sensory experience linking to another, as well as the attendant thoughts that "seem" to go along with them. It's all a series of self-aware arisings, that thought says are linked in some sort of fictional continuum. There is only "now," and even "now" doesn't exist. Life just is. Experience just is.
Now that you've looked at time, look at the words "process" and "integration." See how there is still a hidden expectation in there that something will be "gained" in the "future." That's a tough one to see through. Keep in mind this inquiry is about first casting doubt on the fictional separate self, then seeing it as just a belief, and then dropping the belief with the realization that there was never anyone who ever even had the belief, nor anyone to now "drop it," and this happens in the "now."
You may have noticed in my opening questions that I asked about meditation. Some people meditate to "gain enlightenment" in some non-existent future. Others, and I would place you in the following category- meditate more for relaxation. That's fine. Just be mindful of the fact that if "Jane" has been meditating for a long time, then "Jane meditating" can be a re-constructing rather than a de-constructing thing, a good hiding place. But I certainly don't need you to isolate yourself from anyone right now. Just be aware of the habitual things "Jane" does. :)
O.K. Moving on to something else. Take out a pen and paper and do the following exercise. I always liked this one.
I want you write down what you are experiencing for 5 or 10 minutes, or however long it takes to get a few paragraphs. Example:
"I am sitting in the chair."
"I am typing."
"I am listening to the television."
" I see the dogs in the yard."
"I see the wind moving through the trees."
"Etc., etc., etc."
Then I want to re-write the exercise experientially. Example:
Sitting in a chair.
Typing.
Listening to television.
Seeing dogs.
Wind moving.
Post when you're ready.
Here's a koan that helped me.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought,
And you see that thought itself does not think,
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
((((((((((((((((((((((((( I is a thought and a thought can't think. ))))))))))))))))))))))))
Yes. The Sevenfold Analysis is a good one to look at. It kind of deconstructs one sensory experience linking to another, as well as the attendant thoughts that "seem" to go along with them. It's all a series of self-aware arisings, that thought says are linked in some sort of fictional continuum. There is only "now," and even "now" doesn't exist. Life just is. Experience just is.
Now that you've looked at time, look at the words "process" and "integration." See how there is still a hidden expectation in there that something will be "gained" in the "future." That's a tough one to see through. Keep in mind this inquiry is about first casting doubt on the fictional separate self, then seeing it as just a belief, and then dropping the belief with the realization that there was never anyone who ever even had the belief, nor anyone to now "drop it," and this happens in the "now."
You may have noticed in my opening questions that I asked about meditation. Some people meditate to "gain enlightenment" in some non-existent future. Others, and I would place you in the following category- meditate more for relaxation. That's fine. Just be mindful of the fact that if "Jane" has been meditating for a long time, then "Jane meditating" can be a re-constructing rather than a de-constructing thing, a good hiding place. But I certainly don't need you to isolate yourself from anyone right now. Just be aware of the habitual things "Jane" does. :)
O.K. Moving on to something else. Take out a pen and paper and do the following exercise. I always liked this one.
I want you write down what you are experiencing for 5 or 10 minutes, or however long it takes to get a few paragraphs. Example:
"I am sitting in the chair."
"I am typing."
"I am listening to the television."
" I see the dogs in the yard."
"I see the wind moving through the trees."
"Etc., etc., etc."
Then I want to re-write the exercise experientially. Example:
Sitting in a chair.
Typing.
Listening to television.
Seeing dogs.
Wind moving.
Post when you're ready.
Here's a koan that helped me.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought,
And you see that thought itself does not think,
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
((((((((((((((((((((((((( I is a thought and a thought can't think. ))))))))))))))))))))))))
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
The exercise doesn't need to be posted in the thread, just write it out on paper. What I want you to post is just what comes up after doing the exercise.
Enjoy the evening. (In case you read this this evening) :)
The exercise doesn't need to be posted in the thread, just write it out on paper. What I want you to post is just what comes up after doing the exercise.
Enjoy the evening. (In case you read this this evening) :)
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
In doing the exercise "I" see how experience is all verbs and no nouns/pronouns. There is realization of old patterns of getting all of this intellectually in the "I", giving it "lip service" and avoiding it sinking deeper. "I" see that concepts like "process" and "integration" bring in the knee jerk "I" trying to gain something in the future. The old pattern is to move away from pain and not necessarily move to something so, in looking at old habits, that is the motivation for meditation and doing the spiritual work. Obviously a flaw in this approach is, there is no "I" experiencing the pain but when the pain arises that is when "I" start seeking a better way. When it works in the moment "I" am reinforced. I feel like I'm leading myself on a wild goose chase here...
Jane
In doing the exercise "I" see how experience is all verbs and no nouns/pronouns. There is realization of old patterns of getting all of this intellectually in the "I", giving it "lip service" and avoiding it sinking deeper. "I" see that concepts like "process" and "integration" bring in the knee jerk "I" trying to gain something in the future. The old pattern is to move away from pain and not necessarily move to something so, in looking at old habits, that is the motivation for meditation and doing the spiritual work. Obviously a flaw in this approach is, there is no "I" experiencing the pain but when the pain arises that is when "I" start seeking a better way. When it works in the moment "I" am reinforced. I feel like I'm leading myself on a wild goose chase here...
Jane
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
After coming back from my morning walk there is a realization settling in that the wild goose chase is chasing the self that is not there. Again, the process leading to some future feeling better for the "self". The futility of this is sinking in! Process just is...integration just is and neither are related to a "self"!! Neither is reinforcing "my worth". Worthiness just is...as Life just is!
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Alright. I just saw your subsequent post. But I'll leave the following reply in place just as it is.
I see a little sadness setting in for what you are seeing. That is normal. Be O.K. with it. It passes.
Keep looking. Futility is actually the best thing I see here. It comes right before surrender, and when that happens it will be obvious there was no one ever there TO surrender.
Stay with this.
*************************************************************
Here was my original reply.
From my initial questions.
"27 How badly do you want “enlightenment”?
I tend to move away from pain rather than innately moving toward something like enlightenment. I really want a state of freedom from this state I am in."
Now you say."The old pattern is to move away from pain and not necessarily move to something so, ......"
I had some concerns about this when you wrote it, but decided to wait and deal with it later if it came up. Now it has come up so it's time to look at it, because it seems to be interfering here.
First of all, let me address one myth that seems to lurk in the background of enlightenment, or liberation, or whatever you want to call it. Freedom from the self does not end pain, physical or otherwise. It may lessen the suffering surrounding pain, such as thoughts that say "I have been suffering for so long," or "I will suffer with this forever," but pain-like everything else-is allowed in life.
Secondly, you seem to be saying that seeking enlightenment is painful in some way. In what way is it painful? Are you experiencing pain during this "process"? Are you actually talking about "pain" when seeking enlightenment, or are you really talking about fear? Look closely at this.
Finally, you said. "I feel like I'm leading myself on a wild goose chase here... "
It can seem like that sometimes. Thoughts say all kinds of crazy things, especially when you're close to seeing through their trickery. Who is leading whom here? I don't see any wild goose chase here. I see you doing serious looking and having some solid realizations.
Let me address sensations a little more deeply here. What is a sensation of pain, or fear for that matter?
It is an arising in what you are. NOTHING MORE.
((((((((((((( FULL STOP ))))))))))))))
Re-read the above paragraph.
Then thought rushes in to label it.
The next time a sensation of pain, fear, shame, or whatever arises, stop and experience it. Don't run from it. Pull it close and examine it for what it is. Look to the "left" of it, the "right" of it, look "behind" it. What is it protecting? What is it trying to keep you from seeing? NOTHING. There's nothing there that needs protecting. There's nothing there to see. What you truly are can not be lost in this "process." Only thoughts ABOUT what you truly are could change.
See that it is just some kind of energy stirring in what you are. Notice that thought then rushes in and labels it something, something that "Jane" has been taught is "negative." PAIN. FEAR. What if thought were to just label it ENERGY? What then?
Look at what is ACTUALLY happening, not what thought says is happening.
Re-read your October 30th post a couple of times.
Here's something to ponder. Is your desire for freedom greater than your fear, or pain associated with freedom?
Enjoy the day.
I see a little sadness setting in for what you are seeing. That is normal. Be O.K. with it. It passes.
Keep looking. Futility is actually the best thing I see here. It comes right before surrender, and when that happens it will be obvious there was no one ever there TO surrender.
Stay with this.
*************************************************************
Here was my original reply.
From my initial questions.
"27 How badly do you want “enlightenment”?
I tend to move away from pain rather than innately moving toward something like enlightenment. I really want a state of freedom from this state I am in."
Now you say."The old pattern is to move away from pain and not necessarily move to something so, ......"
I had some concerns about this when you wrote it, but decided to wait and deal with it later if it came up. Now it has come up so it's time to look at it, because it seems to be interfering here.
First of all, let me address one myth that seems to lurk in the background of enlightenment, or liberation, or whatever you want to call it. Freedom from the self does not end pain, physical or otherwise. It may lessen the suffering surrounding pain, such as thoughts that say "I have been suffering for so long," or "I will suffer with this forever," but pain-like everything else-is allowed in life.
Secondly, you seem to be saying that seeking enlightenment is painful in some way. In what way is it painful? Are you experiencing pain during this "process"? Are you actually talking about "pain" when seeking enlightenment, or are you really talking about fear? Look closely at this.
Finally, you said. "I feel like I'm leading myself on a wild goose chase here... "
It can seem like that sometimes. Thoughts say all kinds of crazy things, especially when you're close to seeing through their trickery. Who is leading whom here? I don't see any wild goose chase here. I see you doing serious looking and having some solid realizations.
Let me address sensations a little more deeply here. What is a sensation of pain, or fear for that matter?
It is an arising in what you are. NOTHING MORE.
((((((((((((( FULL STOP ))))))))))))))
Re-read the above paragraph.
Then thought rushes in to label it.
The next time a sensation of pain, fear, shame, or whatever arises, stop and experience it. Don't run from it. Pull it close and examine it for what it is. Look to the "left" of it, the "right" of it, look "behind" it. What is it protecting? What is it trying to keep you from seeing? NOTHING. There's nothing there that needs protecting. There's nothing there to see. What you truly are can not be lost in this "process." Only thoughts ABOUT what you truly are could change.
See that it is just some kind of energy stirring in what you are. Notice that thought then rushes in and labels it something, something that "Jane" has been taught is "negative." PAIN. FEAR. What if thought were to just label it ENERGY? What then?
Look at what is ACTUALLY happening, not what thought says is happening.
Re-read your October 30th post a couple of times.
Here's something to ponder. Is your desire for freedom greater than your fear, or pain associated with freedom?
Enjoy the day.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
Yes, there is an old pattern of avoiding feelings and labeling them "pain", good or bad feelings and finding something to make "me" feel better. You are spot on...it is fear... lack of worthiness to be enlightened...fear "I'm" not good enough.
Your paragraph about the sensation of pain... stopping and exploring it is something I have been trying to do for several years yet still struggle with. The knee jerk to protect the "self" at all costs is very strong! And it is seen later after the fog clears that, ah yes, I was feeling fear or shame beneath it all. So I am sitting this morning with that protective shield/crust exploring behind it to see what exactly it is protecting.
And yes, the desire for freedom is greater than the fear associated with it! Freedom from the perception of the "self"...that is why I am doing this. Not sure about the enlightenment thing though...my sense is that it is no different than the glimpses already experienced of the Presence behind all things...so "chop wood carry water", nothing changes and yet everything changes.
With deep gratitude,
Jane
Yes, there is an old pattern of avoiding feelings and labeling them "pain", good or bad feelings and finding something to make "me" feel better. You are spot on...it is fear... lack of worthiness to be enlightened...fear "I'm" not good enough.
Your paragraph about the sensation of pain... stopping and exploring it is something I have been trying to do for several years yet still struggle with. The knee jerk to protect the "self" at all costs is very strong! And it is seen later after the fog clears that, ah yes, I was feeling fear or shame beneath it all. So I am sitting this morning with that protective shield/crust exploring behind it to see what exactly it is protecting.
And yes, the desire for freedom is greater than the fear associated with it! Freedom from the perception of the "self"...that is why I am doing this. Not sure about the enlightenment thing though...my sense is that it is no different than the glimpses already experienced of the Presence behind all things...so "chop wood carry water", nothing changes and yet everything changes.
With deep gratitude,
Jane
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
Good. Sit with that and tell me what comes up.
Do a simple exercise for me today when you have a spare moment.
Move from one place to another in the room, and ask yourself, "Have I moved'?
Enjoy the day, as the day.
Good. Sit with that and tell me what comes up.
Do a simple exercise for me today when you have a spare moment.
Move from one place to another in the room, and ask yourself, "Have I moved'?
Enjoy the day, as the day.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
Behind the protective crust is fear...constriction in the chest, nervous stomach...fear of not doing this right, taking too long, really not "getting it", no progress. All based on the concept of "self" attaining something called enlightenment which is a fallacy to begin with! False Evidence Appearing Real.
In doing the exercise moving around the room, new vantage points were viewed and bodily sensations of movement were felt and each time, there was no "I" that had moved...clearly! This is truly an investigative pro... Oooo just caught myself about to say "investigative process" again attempting to prove the existence of an "I" having a process. The process is the process...just an exercise.
Jane
Behind the protective crust is fear...constriction in the chest, nervous stomach...fear of not doing this right, taking too long, really not "getting it", no progress. All based on the concept of "self" attaining something called enlightenment which is a fallacy to begin with! False Evidence Appearing Real.
In doing the exercise moving around the room, new vantage points were viewed and bodily sensations of movement were felt and each time, there was no "I" that had moved...clearly! This is truly an investigative pro... Oooo just caught myself about to say "investigative process" again attempting to prove the existence of an "I" having a process. The process is the process...just an exercise.
Jane
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
Re-read the last part of my first Oct. 28 post starting with ((((Jane is a thought and a thought can't think. )))))))
*****************************************************************************
Now back to your post.
LOOK and answer EACH of the following.
What is it that says there is a protective crust?
What is it that says there is something behind the protective crust?
What is it that says there is a contraction in a chest?
What is it that says there is a nervous stomach?
What is it that says there is something to be done right here?
What is it that says there is something to be done?
What is it that says this something to be done is taking too long?
What is it that says there is a fear of not getting it?
What is it that says there is no progress taking place?
What is it that says that any of the previous are true?
Where is the authority for any of the above to be true?
What is it that says anything is true?
Exercise: Close your eyes and imagine an apple an apple in your hands. See the redness of it, feel the weight and the texture of it. Bring it up to your mouth and bite into it. Taste the appleness of it, feel the crunchiness of it as you chew it. Now open your eyes. Is there an apple?
Now close your eyes again and form an image of Jane. See Jane in whatever form she pops up as, whether a body, or some other type of image. Imagine all the facets of Jane as she is thought of, then open your eyes. Is there a Jane?
There are images of apple and Jane but neither ACTUALLY exists in experience.
Thought shows up in experience. But the content of thought is not actual experience.
Apple and Jane thoughts and images showed up. But the content of thought-an actual apple and an actual Jane-is not in experience.
Thoughts can point to experience but they are not ACTUAL experience.
Re-read the last part of my first Oct. 28 post starting with ((((Jane is a thought and a thought can't think. )))))))
*****************************************************************************
Now back to your post.
LOOK and answer EACH of the following.
What is it that says there is a protective crust?
What is it that says there is something behind the protective crust?
What is it that says there is a contraction in a chest?
What is it that says there is a nervous stomach?
What is it that says there is something to be done right here?
What is it that says there is something to be done?
What is it that says this something to be done is taking too long?
What is it that says there is a fear of not getting it?
What is it that says there is no progress taking place?
What is it that says that any of the previous are true?
Where is the authority for any of the above to be true?
What is it that says anything is true?
Exercise: Close your eyes and imagine an apple an apple in your hands. See the redness of it, feel the weight and the texture of it. Bring it up to your mouth and bite into it. Taste the appleness of it, feel the crunchiness of it as you chew it. Now open your eyes. Is there an apple?
Now close your eyes again and form an image of Jane. See Jane in whatever form she pops up as, whether a body, or some other type of image. Imagine all the facets of Jane as she is thought of, then open your eyes. Is there a Jane?
There are images of apple and Jane but neither ACTUALLY exists in experience.
Thought shows up in experience. But the content of thought is not actual experience.
Apple and Jane thoughts and images showed up. But the content of thought-an actual apple and an actual Jane-is not in experience.
Thoughts can point to experience but they are not ACTUAL experience.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
I appreciate the hard looking you have been doing. It makes it easier for me as a first timer. I've been wandering around looking for some external stuff to help you. Sometimes, when challenging beliefs, it can seem as if a guide is attacking a seeker. That is so not the case. There is nothing but compassion here. Here is something that I resonate with. I hope you enjoy it.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_R ... ading.html
Scroll down to, Tim Freke
The Mystery Experience.
I appreciate the hard looking you have been doing. It makes it easier for me as a first timer. I've been wandering around looking for some external stuff to help you. Sometimes, when challenging beliefs, it can seem as if a guide is attacking a seeker. That is so not the case. There is nothing but compassion here. Here is something that I resonate with. I hope you enjoy it.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_R ... ading.html
Scroll down to, Tim Freke
The Mystery Experience.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
-
4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
Ah...!!! There is no authority in experience or thought...they just are...when there is authority rising to judge thought or experience and it is examined, there is no "I" therefore no authority judging. In reading previous posts this resonated greatly..."Jane is a series of thoughts in a language learned long ago". The authority "appearing" to judge experience and thought is also a series of learned thoughts!! All of the above comments from yesterday are just thoughts about thoughts about thoughts...nothing more! Learned ways of thinking, labeling and languaging. Just a habit! A habit that has created fear about itself and more thinking and labeling about itself...a continual cycle of habit! Gibberish!!
So to answer all your questions above there is NO THING there stating those things...they are all just thoughts upon thoughts upon thoughts!! End of story...Clarity in the moment!
Thank you for pointing to the Tim Freke movie! Wonderful experience!
Jane
Ah...!!! There is no authority in experience or thought...they just are...when there is authority rising to judge thought or experience and it is examined, there is no "I" therefore no authority judging. In reading previous posts this resonated greatly..."Jane is a series of thoughts in a language learned long ago". The authority "appearing" to judge experience and thought is also a series of learned thoughts!! All of the above comments from yesterday are just thoughts about thoughts about thoughts...nothing more! Learned ways of thinking, labeling and languaging. Just a habit! A habit that has created fear about itself and more thinking and labeling about itself...a continual cycle of habit! Gibberish!!
So to answer all your questions above there is NO THING there stating those things...they are all just thoughts upon thoughts upon thoughts!! End of story...Clarity in the moment!
Thank you for pointing to the Tim Freke movie! Wonderful experience!
Jane
-
Hopefulness
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm
- Location: Louisiana
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi again,
Yes. I see the framework of doubt, and that is "progress." The question is how much is sinking in.
1. Are these realizations affecting your "felt reality"? Please try to describe any changes in that "felt reality," particularly in terms of emotions arising with these realizations, and your viewing of them as they arise.
2. Please describe the current feeling of separation?
3. Does anything feel different about fear now?
4. Did anything in particular show up in the exercise?
I would also like for you to ask questions, if you have any. Sometimes, the questions can reveal "where you are" in this inquiry better than your replies. The questions can be about any subject, not just those mentioned in the threads, as long as they are pointing toward removing any obstacles that you "think" are blocking the complete realization of what is being pointed to here.
Yes. I see the framework of doubt, and that is "progress." The question is how much is sinking in.
1. Are these realizations affecting your "felt reality"? Please try to describe any changes in that "felt reality," particularly in terms of emotions arising with these realizations, and your viewing of them as they arise.
2. Please describe the current feeling of separation?
3. Does anything feel different about fear now?
4. Did anything in particular show up in the exercise?
I would also like for you to ask questions, if you have any. Sometimes, the questions can reveal "where you are" in this inquiry better than your replies. The questions can be about any subject, not just those mentioned in the threads, as long as they are pointing toward removing any obstacles that you "think" are blocking the complete realization of what is being pointed to here.
Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.
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4connection
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
Re: Requesting a Guide
Hi Hopefulness,
So to answer your questions:
Are these realizations affecting your "felt reality"? Please try to describe any changes in that "felt reality," particularly in terms of emotions arising with these realizations, and your viewing of them as they arise.
There has been a definite relaxing of the system...a kind of settling into knowing rather than "seeking". There is also less grabbing of thoughts upon thoughts in order to figure something out. If thoughts pile up which they still do, there is less judgement about them and tendency for "authority" to step in. There is a lightness to experience. People still cut in while I'm driving but there is less reaction and more allowing of experiences. There is also a bit less grasping for something to place my attention on to do or to keep the mind busy, and more inclination to just be with the moment in the silence or space. All subtle shifts but I do believe something is different in the last couple of days.
2. Please describe the current feeling of separation?
There currently is not much feeling of separation...though I will continue to look. There used to be a worry about what I was feeling in my body and what it might be in relationship to my health. This looks like thoughts about "ah, I'm feeling a twinge here or a stiffness there...what's going on and what should I do about it?"
3. Does anything feel different about fear now?
First of all there doesn't seem to be as much fear to be found. Not that it won't arise again but there is knowing that "it's not going to get me" and there seems to be less "fear about fear".
4. Did anything in particular show up in the exercise?
Doing the exercise seemed to, again, affirm the non-existence of "Jane". I noticed there is a body and that the body has memory that is quite vivid about "appleness" but there was no apple there. There was also memory of what used to be called "Jane" and there now is awareness that there never really was "Jane", just a huge amount of thought built upon thought, judgement built on judgement, and it was just a story...Santa.
I guess the biggest question right now is has the Gate been actually crossed? And will this stick? There definitely has been something that has lifted off. How are we going to know when it is complete? And what then to support the unfolding?
With deep appreciation for your guidance,
Jane
So to answer your questions:
Are these realizations affecting your "felt reality"? Please try to describe any changes in that "felt reality," particularly in terms of emotions arising with these realizations, and your viewing of them as they arise.
There has been a definite relaxing of the system...a kind of settling into knowing rather than "seeking". There is also less grabbing of thoughts upon thoughts in order to figure something out. If thoughts pile up which they still do, there is less judgement about them and tendency for "authority" to step in. There is a lightness to experience. People still cut in while I'm driving but there is less reaction and more allowing of experiences. There is also a bit less grasping for something to place my attention on to do or to keep the mind busy, and more inclination to just be with the moment in the silence or space. All subtle shifts but I do believe something is different in the last couple of days.
2. Please describe the current feeling of separation?
There currently is not much feeling of separation...though I will continue to look. There used to be a worry about what I was feeling in my body and what it might be in relationship to my health. This looks like thoughts about "ah, I'm feeling a twinge here or a stiffness there...what's going on and what should I do about it?"
3. Does anything feel different about fear now?
First of all there doesn't seem to be as much fear to be found. Not that it won't arise again but there is knowing that "it's not going to get me" and there seems to be less "fear about fear".
4. Did anything in particular show up in the exercise?
Doing the exercise seemed to, again, affirm the non-existence of "Jane". I noticed there is a body and that the body has memory that is quite vivid about "appleness" but there was no apple there. There was also memory of what used to be called "Jane" and there now is awareness that there never really was "Jane", just a huge amount of thought built upon thought, judgement built on judgement, and it was just a story...Santa.
I guess the biggest question right now is has the Gate been actually crossed? And will this stick? There definitely has been something that has lifted off. How are we going to know when it is complete? And what then to support the unfolding?
With deep appreciation for your guidance,
Jane
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