Please help me to see

[origins44]

Sorry to hear about yesterday.I hope you are feeling better, Steve.

To answer your questions...

Looking directly, now, at your actual experience, is there a separate "you"? Yes or no?

looking at direct experience there is no separate "me". There is the label placed on the thoughts claiming that there is but when looking, no. none.

In other words, do you experience a feeling that you've seen through the illusion (remembering that feelings come and go)? Or do you know without doubt that you've seen?

I would not say that there is a feeling that I have seen through the illusion. I better way to describe it (in detail) would be that I have seen that there is no separate self living life, that there is no "I" that thinks, I have watched the thoughts rise and fall and felt the emotions come and go with them. With that being said, the only reason there was/is a glimmer of doubt is that attention gets wrapped up in the thoughts and labels still and sometimes it may take a minute or an hour before I see that attention has moved into a story and thoughts are rising quickly. Sometimes it is clearer than others, where attention is really focused I see it, all of it the labels, everything and then something happens (external or internal) thoughts react and then there is identification with thoughts again. That is why I was/am mildly hesitant to say really strongly "yes! no doubt". I have seen it but because the situation with the thoughts and emotions is happening I doubt a little. You're going to laugh but it is expectations that there should be more attention and presence. I know, a thought!

In deep gratitude,
Jessica

[Steve]

Hi, Jessica. I loved your direct and honest response.

...the only reason there was/is a glimmer of doubt is that attention gets wrapped up in the thoughts and labels still and sometimes it may take a minute or an hour before I see that attention has moved into a story and thoughts are rising quickly.

I have seen it but because the situation with the thoughts and emotions is happening I doubt a little. You're going to laugh but it is expectations that there should be more attention and presence. I know, a thought!

You're so right. Expectations and thoughts. And I only chuckled a little. :)

All this is perfectly natural and nothing to worry about. A common question is "Why do I keep 'selfing' when I've seen there's really no self?" (Using "selfing" as shorthand for getting carried away by thoughts including "I" thoughts.) The best answer is that it's habit. And the important point is that noticing those thoughts arising does not mean that the "you" has somehow reappeared. No. "You" never existed, not even when your belief in it was strongest.

Look and make sure you can verify that in your experience. During those times when your attention seems to be wrapped up in story, is there a real "you" or is it the illusion of a "you"?

With Love,
Steve

PS: I am feeling better. Thanks for asking!

[origins44]

So glad to hear that you are feeling better! :)

Look and make sure you can verify that in your experience. During those times when your attention seems to be wrapped up in story, is there a real "you" or is it the illusion of a "you"?

It seems real until attention is there. When the attention is on experience then I am able to observe it...not "I" but you know what I mean. There is also frustration when it comes to "selfing" as things can/are still taken personal or the feeling of sadness or anger arising when something is directed toward "me" even though there is the awareness that there is no "me", only the thought, label of me. Is this also normal? It was/is things such as these that I have been using as the gauge as to whether or not illusionou was truly seen through.

thank you for the time you are spending to help and answer questions

in deep gratitude,
Jessica

[Steve]

Hi, Jessica.

Is this also normal? It was/is things such as these that I have been using as the gauge as to whether or not illusionou was truly seen through.

Sure it's normal. Isn't it really a variation of the previous concerns? Expecting these habitual patterns of response to dissolve immediately just isn't realistic.

I don't usually recommend outside sources during the dialogues here, but I came across a lovely video clip that's very apropos. It will help confirm (among other things) that your questions are common and that these lifetime habits take some time to dissipate. Please watch it and let me know how you find it correlating with your experience, and how you view your experience afterward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm3FcuapwrQ

With Love,
Steve

[origins44]

Thank you for the wonderful video, Steve.

I really appreciated the part where he was talking about not expecting the suffering to go away because the expectation creates another "self" and that suffering dissolves on its own in time. A much needed video. Though, I was only able to watch it once and I really want to watch it a few more times before I write more in length and answer your question. The last day of the month at my job tends to be be very long and very busy :)

In deep gratitude,
Jessica

[Steve]

I really want to watch it a few more times before I write more in length and answer your question.

That's fine. There's no rush. :)

With Love,
Steve

[origins44]

Hello, Steve

So, I listened to the video a few more times and really enjoyed the message. Especially seeing through the illusion of self and the metaphor of "suffering is to the mind as pain is to the body". Though, he got a bit carried away with the butterfly metaphor....

Isn't it really a variation of the previous concerns?

Are you referring to the concerns at the beginning of the dialog? Just want to be sure that I am understanding the question fully?

Things have stayed the same as far as reactions go (referring to self here) but as I listened to that clip It really helped to hear that it is merely habits and that they will dissolve on there own...It feels as though things are the same, Jessica still has habits, likes, dislikes, gets stressed easily and enjoys a nice pumpkin latte...part of illusion is that there was the expectation that this would somehow change, which I see now it won't...unless it does ;)

In deep gratitude,
Jessica

[Steve]

Hi, Jessica. I'm glad you found the video helpful.

Are you referring to the concerns at the beginning of the dialog? Just want to be sure that I am understanding the question fully?

I was referring to what you wrote a couple of days earlier: "I have seen it but because the situation with the thoughts and emotions is happening I doubt a little."

What we're clarifying now is this: The knowledge that there's no separate "you" can never be jeopardized by any thought content. It doesn't matter how many thoughts arise, and it doesn't matter how authoritative their claims sound. Thoughts are just thoughts. There's no control. Every time you stop and look, you find there is no "you" as a thinker and never has been.

And this: The knowledge that there's no separate "you" can never be jeopardized by any feelings. It doesn't matter how many feelings arise, and it doesn't matter whether they get labeled as "feeling good" or "feeling bad." When "feeling good" arises, it doesn't indicate that you're more in tune with anything or more established in any knowing. When "feeling bad" arises, it doesn't indicate that you're less in tune with anything or less established in any knowing. Feelingss are just feelings. There's no control. Every time you stop and look, you find there is no "you" as a feeler and never has been.

It feels as though things are the same, Jessica still has habits, likes, dislikes, gets stressed easily and enjoys a nice pumpkin latte.

What is the "Jessica" in that sentence? What is it that owns these habits, preferences, and tendencies?

With Love,
Steve

[origins44]

Thank you for your help, Steve.

Okay, I understand where you are coming from. The clarification is much appreciated. So, to answer your question...

What is the "Jessica" in that sentence? What is it that owns these habits, preferences, and tendencies?

"Jessica" in the context of that sentence is a label placed on the life expressing. At times it feels like a separate "I" when attention moves into a story or thought. When I say it feels, I mean there is labeling that occurs and then I forget that it is just a story that there is no "I" and fall back into it. But, I know that there is no "I", I've seen it and I understand it. I know not to expect things to change, I know that things won't change.

Hope that makes sense. Sorry if it is confusing.

In deep gratitude,
Jessica

[Steve]

Hi, Jessica. Certainly that makes sense. Not confusing at all.

At this point we offer a standard set of questions to give you an opportunity to sum up, and to see whether there are any areas we may need to cover in more depth. Take your time. It's fine to answer one at a time, a few at a time, or all at once. Answer based on your direct experience of the past few days, without thought stories.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self,' 'me,' 'I,' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

With Love,
Steve

[origins44]

Hello, Steve

Answering one at a time...as time permits of course (I may do more)

Is there a separate entity 'self,' 'me,' 'I,' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no entity “me” in reality. There is the experience of life and life happening with the labels of “me” or “Jessica” being placed onto feelings, situations and things. With that being said, these things are just labels, products of habit, thought, mind that manifest on their own and rise up and then pass. There was never “I” or “me” only the illusion created by habitual thought and the reliance and belief of the thought. There was a belief that there was a separate entity until it was looked at.

Deeply grateful,
Jessica

[origins44]

Steve!
Yet another long day. I have much to write...I will elaborate more tomorrow.

Grateful,
Jessica

[Steve]

That's fine! I look forward to seeing it.

With Love,
Steve

[origins44]

Good evening, Steve

To answer the next question:

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a form of labeling and language used to describe the experience of life expressing but it has become a form of identification, a way to separate the experience of life and the observation of life into two things when it is just one. Experience happening. It starts when we are infants when "you" are given a name, a label and from that time on we are taught that is it "us" and "them", "me" and "you". Things are taken personal because someone did it to "me". People are taught to defend your self, stand up for your self and even find yourself. There is no self to find, defend, or stand up for, there is only the experience of it, of defense, finding, etc. but even then this is just a label placed on experience.
The separate self works as a way to navigate and move through life. In my experience it has been a way to control (or try to control) things that happen, feelings that are felt and explain why life happens the way it does. A kind of if A then B explanation. If things happen to the self then there is the label of a story that goes with it and then the story of "I" begins and grows.

In deep gratitude,
Jessica

[origins44]

Hello, Steve

Yet another long, long day. This weekend has been very busy. Just wanted to let you know that I have not forgotten the questions, just need a bit more time!''

In deep gratitude,
Jessica