need a guide to push me

[Paulo]

Hi escoho,

There is no escoho choosing words or making the movements there is plenty to be written even if it doesn't make sense the connection between the words exists and basically write themselves.
There is no doer but things are being done.

Reading your response to the exercise, it seems that the illusion of self has been seen through. Just to clarify - the illusion of a seperate self is that there is a discrete entity existing in the world that is seperate and operating independantly from it.

Your responses so far seem to indicate that you see the 'self' not as something solid and seperate, but as a concept, a thought, part of the ongoing experience in awareness. Seeing through the illusion of self as a seperate entity, means simply that, and doesn't necessarily mean the illusion will disappear, but rather that it is seen for what it is. Remember of course, this is just a first 'step' in awakening, and the journey continues.

There is no doer but things are being done, not by something that is "dead", what is it? Momentum I guess. Is it illusionary? I believe its the lack of being centered. Thoughts are momentum action is momentum. Self is the compromise between concepts and reality, the "gap", not anything but empty space. "Why" implies that something was done, nothing ever is, it is only concepts attached to the momentum of action and thought, when concepts are momentum themselves, so if a concept is attached to an mental or physical event, which is acceptable phenomena in life, then it may seem that the result would be tension created because two momentums are not always going to continue parallel. The nature of self is the clinging, when there is nothing to cling to, only objectless momentums

What you appear to be looking at here is - "how does reality work", and is beyond this first 'step' of seeing through the illusion of self. This is something you can certainly work on in the LU Aftercare groups, and you will find others there looking at those very questions.

Share a little on whether you have seen through the illusion of self, and if you agree with my assessment above.

Paulo.

[escoho]

I agree this is something that I have seem through. Thanks for working with me.

[Paulo]

Thank you escoho, it seems the ground work you put in before posting here brought far indeed,

It only remains for me to ask you a number of questions which I would like you to answer in your own time and your own way, maybe one per day, or all at once if you feel so inspired. Answer ONLY from your own experience, and from what's happening HERE and NOW. I will catch up with you once you have responded to all questions -

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of a separate self is, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it. 




5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you see?

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

7) Anything to add?

[escoho]

1 nope no I me self, never was.
2 the illusion of separate self is a bunch of expectations that there is something that will be lost at some time, through death or some strange power. It is surounded by fear and we usually don't want to look at fear, so someone usually needs to show you.
3 after seeing this you won't seem to know anything, the lights are turned on and your eyes need to adjust. But it works out, before I started the dialogue my illusion had been seen through, the past few days were me finding were I need to look further.
4 Its just an illusion it has no power, when you see through is you will become solitary.
5 nothing i was just pulled in and spit out.
6 eh yes and no, life's very interesting without a story, you can't control the event but you can control what you see, what you see is what you become. Very hard to explain.
7 you don't learn anything, to me it was like a remembering.

[Paulo]

Thanks escoho,

Let's have a closer look at some of those responses -

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

4 Its just an illusion it has no power, when you see through is you will become solitary.

I need you to provide more detail here, remember, you're explaining it to someone who has never heard of the illusion. Explain it fully and simply.

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6 eh yes and no, life's very interesting without a story, you can't control the event but you can control what you see, what you see is what you become. Very hard to explain.

Do you think that if there really is a 'you' there controlling what is seen that everyone would be seeing happiness and fulfillment?

Let's take a closer look at that by exploring thought -

Think of a car.

Share your experience of what happens when you think of a car in as much detail as you can.

How did the thought arrive? Was there an escoho there choosing the particular car that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, etc?

How did that particular car appear from all the possible cars that could have appeared?

Paulo.

[escoho]

4 I don't remember the illusion a whole lot but I guess you can say you don't have to command yourself to become or do anything everything that is needed is there,
6the thought of a car is just application of the idea to think about a car, the car I thought about was more so uncovered than created mentally.

[Paulo]

Hi escoho,

It's very important that you respond every day to keep up the momentum, and I also need you to provide a lot more detail to your answers here. Is there any reason why the responses are so short?

Have another go at responding to those questions, and answer them as fully as possible, including examples from your personal experience in response to Q6.

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

4 Its just an illusion it has no power, when you see through is you will become solitary.

I need you to provide more detail here, remember, you're explaining it to someone who has never heard of the illusion. Explain it fully and simply.

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6 eh yes and no, life's very interesting without a story, you can't control the event but you can control what you see, what you see is what you become. Very hard to explain.

Do you think that if there really is a 'you' there controlling what is seen that everyone would be seeing happiness and fulfillment?

Let's take a closer look at that by exploring thought -

Think of a car.

Share your experience of what happens when you think of a car in as much detail as you can.

How did the thought arrive? Was there an escoho there choosing the particular car that appeared in thought, it's colour, size, etc?

How did that particular car appear from all the possible cars that could have appeared?

Paulo.

[escoho]

4 if right now somehow all memories of past, your body, thoughts, location, where givin to yo for the first time right now. All the identification you d have with this information is the illusion, what this information was given unto is pure and true. Idk how else to say this.
6 there is no I, even if there was, fulfillment and happiness aren t whole it would be against the flow for everyone to see it, identification with happiness is also the identification of not be sad, sadness would still be present.
When i think of a car the thought is like an imprint on my mind. There was no escoho choosing the car was imaginary. The car that appeared was nearest in memory at the time of thinking, it just happened to attach to the idea of "think of a car"

[Paulo]

Hi escoho,

Thank you for expanding a little on your responses. I do need you to provide some examples as requested in Q6 though -

6) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

I will soon be sharing this thread with other guides to see if they have any further questions for you, so it's important that every part of each question is answered fully.

Paulo.

[escoho]

I am starting to get the feeling this illusion has been gone for a while. I am also not sure the difference between being a chooser and being choice less. The only thing I know that is relative to this is that I have a notable memory of me as a child understanding that, instead of having to tell my body to move, I could see that it wasn't necessary, the body is complete and needs no master. But as a child there was no identification with non doing, it was probably forgotten that same evening. So it may have been that the mind never knew conceptually but understood as an experience kind of way.

[Paulo]

Thank you escoho,

The next step is for me to share this thread with other guides to see if they have further questions for you. This part of the process may take a little while, but I will keep you updated as we progress.

Our 'aftercare' groups are run through Facebook, so if you have a Facebook account please send me a PM with the address. if you don't have a FaceBook account I would certainly recommend you sign up for one, even with a false name, in order to participate in these groups.

With love, Paulo.

[Paulo]

Hi escoho,

One of our guides would like you to explore one of your responses in a little more detail.

I have a notable memory of me as a child understanding that, instead of having to tell my body to move, I could see that it wasn't necessary, the body is complete and needs no master. But as a child there was no identification with non doing, it was probably forgotten that same evening. So it may have been that the mind never knew conceptually but understood as an experience kind of way.

Is there a sense of continuity with this childhood experience?

Is there a self somewhere that belonged to the child, and now is the adult who can remember the childhood lack of identification?

Is that memory just another thought that comes and goes?

Paulo.

[escoho]

No it just a memory from a first person point of view. No the child doesn't have a self, the child was in an inquiry that arose spontaneously. It is just a memory and just as well may be false, there was never any becoming just change for the child, the child is a dream not a dreamer.

[Paulo]

Thanks escoho,

I'll let the other guides know you have responded.

Paulo.

[Paulo]

Hi escoho, myself and the other guides have no further questions for you. Please check your private messages for more details.

Love, Paulo.