Hi, guide needed:-)

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

I meant that there is no one who suffers. Of course a thought can come up and says "I am suffering". ...but no one found behind the"I". No one tangible. All efforts that is put in order to find a tangible "me" fails.

With or without a "me" there is always present presence. It is obvious, very ordinary knowing. Right now it is only this. It is undeniable.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Lovely :-)

It sounds like you are seeing this clearly now. Are there any doubts left? Any more questions?

With or without a "me" there is always present presence.

Is there ever a "me"? Has there ever been a me?

Love
S

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

There is still a "me" in the head. It should be only a tought, but I am not 100% sure. I try to locate the "me" in the body - in hands, feets, chest, behind the eyes ...and I ended in the head. When thoughts pop up, it seems they happen in the head - in the top of the body. The same with "me".

How to see it clearly, that "me" is nothing more than a thought?

Regarding the presence - it is still present regardless of what is happening right now. I see clearly that everything happens in presence. The presence is primary. Without it there is nothing. It is 100% clear. Also I clearly see that as a being I exist - I know that somehow.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter,

Yes presence is always present and everything arises within presence.

Can you find your head in direct experience?

[PeterCs]

Hi Silvia,

In direct experience I see a part of my nose, feeling some sensations in the area where head should be, also when I touch it, I feel a "touch" sensation, but that is all.

Peter

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Do your visual or tactile sensations say it's a nose or that it's a head? Or that there should be a head?

[PeterCs]

Do your visual or tactile sensations say it's a nose or that it's a head? Or that there should be a head?

Actually they say nothing. Sensations are only experienced. The statement "...there should be a head." is a thought, perhaps based on visual memory when the head was seen in a mirror or based on what it was learned as a child.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

So what makes it seem like the thoughts happen in the head?

[The-Song-Of-Me]

... (continuation) If the head doesn't even exist in direct experience

[PeterCs]

....another thought:-)

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Yes, another thought. But something else too. Are there any physical sensations you normally associate with thought?

[PeterCs]

With the thoughts in general? It is vision (seeing images/imagination) and self-talking/hearing.

[The-Song-Of-Me]

I'm talking in particular at what makes it seem like thoughts happen in the head.

You've seen that sensations don't confirm that there is a head. But there are sensations that thought labels as "head".

Are there any sensations that thought labels as thinking?

[PeterCs]

Are there any sensations that thought labels as thinking?

I did not find any of them. Perhaps I am overlooking something. Could you give me a hint, please?

[The-Song-Of-Me]

Hi Peter there is no right or wrong answer. I can't give you a hint for your own direct experience.

But what is it that makes you think that thoughts happen in the head? You say it is because a thought says so. And that's true, but It may also be because some kind of association is made between a certain pattern of sensations and the idea of "thinking".

For example, I've been doing some difficult reading all evening. Now there is a buzzing sensation that thought labels as tension. A thought says, that the tension is happening around my forehead. A thought says it's because my head has been working too hard. A thought says this must be true because I was taught that all mental activity happens in the brain. Then thought says that sensation of tension is the result of all the thoughts happening in the head.

But what is really happening in direct experience? There is a sensation. That's it.

Because of all the thoughts, the sensation now seems like evidence that thougths happen in the head. But when I look at the sensation, all there is is sensation. The sensation proves nothing, points to nothing, means nothing. The sensation doesn't say, I'm happening in the forehead. It doesn't say, it's because you've been thinking too hard. When the word tension is seen as another thought, even that vanishes.

Does this help?