Help me see the illusion of self

[Pallavi]

When was 'Udayan' created?

[rockstar]

The realization itself isn't a thought but the thought appears and verbalizes the realization.

Good question! Udayan is made up of thoughts no doubt but it sticks. It sticks because.....Udayan thinks he's thinking thoughts?? Meaning A thought itself is thinking that it's thinking the thoughts. wow!

No it's obvious a thought cannot own something like a rock. I wouldn't know how it would be to just sit and appreciate the rock for what it is. The ownership of things is the root. Ownership means thoughts sticking?? Why do they stick? Because "I" allow them to stick? I don't know why and how I allow them to stick. It's like undoing the habits. Is it easy? Sounds difficult because every time "I" have to remember oh it's just a thought which is trying to stick.

[Pallavi]

Yes- Udayan was created by your parents telling you, "this is you and these are your hands and legs and you own so and so things, you are separate and you don't like bananas"

Is that real?

It is something that was created to make some meaning out of things that are going on.

So Udayan being the self is a thought, and Udayan's belief in the self is also a thought. Because belief in that thought is associated with 'you' , it sticks :)

It's all a cycle of thoughts. "A thought itself is thinking that it's thinking the thoughts." haha yes, see the hilarity?

Thoughts only ever come up to cover reality.

Some thoughts are useful- like 'pour the water into the glass'. Most other thoughts just cover up real experience- what you directly perceive with your senses in the present moment.

[Pallavi]

So tell me, sink into your present experience and remember the label exercise. Look at things around you- take in how they are labelled and created by us, when in reality they are just chunks of matter.

The chair is a chunk of matter, but we give it a name and a function and use it and so it becomes a separate entity.

The air, the books, your computer- everything is made up of matter. Take this in. Look at all the things that were created by human thought.

Now take a look. What do you see before thought comes in to label?

[rockstar]

Not sure how to answer it. I see everything thats created by human thought around me without labeling it. It's just is. Calculator is just a black thing with bunch of buttons, pen is a long skinny thing etc. All things are just there dead and inert.

[Pallavi]

What do you mean by dead and inert?

Are you seeing 'things'? or are you just seeing? What do you see when you just see?

[rockstar]

Things seem stationary. When I see around, I just see. The seeing is happening. Pen and calculators are just names. I see people and their faces. There is just seeing before interpretation kicks in. What is there to do just with seeing?

[Pallavi]

Is there something to do with just seeing? Does something have to be done with just seeing? Or is just seeing just seeing? :)

Try this with hearing and tell me what you hear

[rockstar]

Yes just sounds are being heard. Nothing else. Every sounds comes in through the ears, that's all. All it feels they seem to exist independently. For example just now I came in to a dentist office and there is TV noise, a fish tank noise and some people chatting noise. As soon as I came in, I was exposed to these noises. I'm just there receiving the noise. Listening.

[Pallavi]

Alright! Try it with touching and tasting and tell me what happens

[rockstar]

I'm sorry for not writing for some time. I think I'm not a dedicated individual perhaps because of strong 'I' presence and/or LU method (for me). Ill be seeing Elena on Sunday and will try to mention it to her. For now, I think we should stop communicating as I would not want to waste your precious time which can be put to a better use.

Thanks for your time, Pallavi.

[Pallavi]

Hi rockstar.

Sure, you can feel free to get in touch any time. I'll be here.