Hi Sakari
1. Look if you can find a my mind. What is it, where is it? Can you find a my mind or is 'my mind' a thought only, about there being a mind?
2. Look is there a me concentrating. Or is concentrating a thought only, about a me concentrating?
3. Is it a thought that 'when concentrating thoughts are limited to be about what you are concentrating on'
Is that really true?
4. Is there a you claiming authorship, or is it only a thought claiming: 'I am authoring the thoughts'
5. What is this me thoughts arise to? Where is that me? Or is it a thought only, that thoughts arise to anyone?
6. Are what you said in your reply other than thoughts pointing to other thoughts, pointing to other thoughts and so on? What else? Do what you say in the reply point to direct experience or to thoughts about what the direct experience must be?
Greetings Vivi
A thread with dreamer
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi!
1. Look if you can find a my mind. What is it, where is it? Can you find a my mind or is 'my mind' a thought only, about there being a mind?
What happens is that I assume thoughts must happen somewhere and that somewhere is called mind. No, I can’t find it. Mind is definitely a thought. Maybe it points to something real, maybe not.
2. Look is there a me concentrating. Or is concentrating a thought only, about a me concentrating?
There is definitely a thought about me concentrating. But is there really me? I have thought so all my life.
Two months ago I found a site telling there is no me. Sounds interesting and might be true. In DE I try to look HARD and can’t find me. At this point I am clueless. You say I is a thought that doesn’t point to anything real. Maybe but where’s the evidence? In DE there are also no cats, birds or trees at the moment. And when I turn my back to the computer screen, also it vanishes from my DE. Yes, they are all thoughts but how can I know: Is I a thought like a bird, a cat or a screen? Or is it a thought like unicorn or Batman?
Don’t get me wrong - I am not angry with you. But the trouble is that I DON’T UNDERSTAND this and it makes me frustrated! If it’s possible to explain the issues above, please do so. But if those issues are impossible to understand before awakening, I can accept that and try to be patient.
But back to the question: While I concentrate, something happens and I think I am concentrating. That’s how I have learnt to say what I am doing. Right now I am concentrating to the question “what is really happening now?” There is anger and frustration, keeping hold to the question and waiting. Noises from the street. The fear that I will never find out. Thought of looking at myself . No answer so far. What next? A break and trying later.
Trying later: What is happening?? Surely there is a thought about me concentrating. What else? All kind of unimportant stuff like the humming of computer. What else? Emotions like before and the question “what’s really happening?” with no answer.
In DE there was a thought about me but no me. But I am not sure about the significance of this fact.
One of the questions bothering me most is: If thing X is absent from DE, what can be concluded about it?
Another: Are thoughts equal? (Examples: 2+2=4, 2+2=7, cats exist, unicorns exist)
3. Is it a thought that 'when concentrating thoughts are limited to be about what you are concentrating on'
Is that really true?
Basically yes. Of course there are degrees of the intensity of concentrating. When doing my best, about 95% of my thoughts are related to the issue.
So far this has been the most difficult set of questions. I will answer the rest later. Please be patient with me. I have doubted everything all my life!
Sakari
1. Look if you can find a my mind. What is it, where is it? Can you find a my mind or is 'my mind' a thought only, about there being a mind?
What happens is that I assume thoughts must happen somewhere and that somewhere is called mind. No, I can’t find it. Mind is definitely a thought. Maybe it points to something real, maybe not.
2. Look is there a me concentrating. Or is concentrating a thought only, about a me concentrating?
There is definitely a thought about me concentrating. But is there really me? I have thought so all my life.
Two months ago I found a site telling there is no me. Sounds interesting and might be true. In DE I try to look HARD and can’t find me. At this point I am clueless. You say I is a thought that doesn’t point to anything real. Maybe but where’s the evidence? In DE there are also no cats, birds or trees at the moment. And when I turn my back to the computer screen, also it vanishes from my DE. Yes, they are all thoughts but how can I know: Is I a thought like a bird, a cat or a screen? Or is it a thought like unicorn or Batman?
Don’t get me wrong - I am not angry with you. But the trouble is that I DON’T UNDERSTAND this and it makes me frustrated! If it’s possible to explain the issues above, please do so. But if those issues are impossible to understand before awakening, I can accept that and try to be patient.
But back to the question: While I concentrate, something happens and I think I am concentrating. That’s how I have learnt to say what I am doing. Right now I am concentrating to the question “what is really happening now?” There is anger and frustration, keeping hold to the question and waiting. Noises from the street. The fear that I will never find out. Thought of looking at myself . No answer so far. What next? A break and trying later.
Trying later: What is happening?? Surely there is a thought about me concentrating. What else? All kind of unimportant stuff like the humming of computer. What else? Emotions like before and the question “what’s really happening?” with no answer.
In DE there was a thought about me but no me. But I am not sure about the significance of this fact.
One of the questions bothering me most is: If thing X is absent from DE, what can be concluded about it?
Another: Are thoughts equal? (Examples: 2+2=4, 2+2=7, cats exist, unicorns exist)
3. Is it a thought that 'when concentrating thoughts are limited to be about what you are concentrating on'
Is that really true?
Basically yes. Of course there are degrees of the intensity of concentrating. When doing my best, about 95% of my thoughts are related to the issue.
So far this has been the most difficult set of questions. I will answer the rest later. Please be patient with me. I have doubted everything all my life!
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi Sakari
You are doing good, I'm very happy with the way you work! No worries.
There seem to be doubts whether direct experience can be trusted - isn't it just a thought suggesting that it might not?
Let us concentrate on the separate I.
And since right now is what IS, whatever NOT experienced is a thought about something.
Now is all you have. Past is a thought, future is a thought. There is (only ever) this instant.
Look and see if it is true. Can you experience something that is not present this instant, as other than a thought?
If 'cat' is not here now, what is the experience of 'cat', if not a thought about having experienced 'cat' once = a thought?
If a separate I isn't experienced this instant, what is it if not a thought about a separate I?
Are thoughts equal?
Greetings Vivi
You are doing good, I'm very happy with the way you work! No worries.
There seem to be doubts whether direct experience can be trusted - isn't it just a thought suggesting that it might not?
Let us concentrate on the separate I.
If a thing is absent in direct experience, one thing that can be concluded is that it is NOT experienced right now.In DE there was a thought about me but no me. But I am not sure about the significance of this fact.
One of the questions bothering me most is: If thing X is absent from DE, what can be concluded about it?
Another: Are thoughts equal? (Examples: 2+2=4, 2+2=7, cats exist, unicorns exist)
And since right now is what IS, whatever NOT experienced is a thought about something.
Now is all you have. Past is a thought, future is a thought. There is (only ever) this instant.
Look and see if it is true. Can you experience something that is not present this instant, as other than a thought?
If 'cat' is not here now, what is the experience of 'cat', if not a thought about having experienced 'cat' once = a thought?
If a separate I isn't experienced this instant, what is it if not a thought about a separate I?
Are thoughts equal?
Greetings Vivi
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hello, Vivi!
Hi Sakari
You are doing good, I'm very happy with the way you work! No worries.
That was very nice to hear, thank you! I am also very happy with your guidance and especially the rational way you deal with my doubts!
There seem to be doubts whether direct experience can be trusted - isn't it just a thought suggesting that it might not?
Yes.
Let us concentrate on the separate I.
In DE there was a thought about me but no me. But I am not sure about the significance of this fact.
One of the questions bothering me most is: If thing X is absent from DE, what can be concluded about it?
Another: Are thoughts equal? (Examples: 2+2=4, 2+2=7, cats exist, unicorns exist)
If a thing is absent in direct experience, one thing that can be concluded is that it is NOT experienced right now.
Agreed.
And since right now is what IS, whatever NOT experienced is a thought about something.
Also agreed.
Now is all you have. Past is a thought, future is a thought. There is (only ever) this instant.
Sounds very sensible. I am about 99% certain it holds true. Practically agreed!
Look and see if it is true. Can you experience something that is not present this instant, as other than a thought?
No, I can’t.
If 'cat' is not here now, what is the experience of 'cat', if not a thought about having experienced 'cat' once = a thought?
Yes, it’s a thought like you said.
If a separate I isn't experienced this instant, what is it if not a thought about a separate I?
A thought, of course! But the question is does that thought point to something real or not?
Are thoughts equal?
I think they are not! 2+2=4 is a true thought, 2+2=7 is false. “Cats exist” holds almost surely true, “unicorns exist” almost surely doesn’t. Do you agree?
I think the most reliable stuff is the content of DE, being more reliable than content of any thought.
But now it occurred to me that I have spoken about my thoughts about DE, not about itself.
Oh hell. Where am I going? There is no DE and I thinking about it, right? There is just DE. Me thinking about DE is just a thought happening in DE. Can it be that I am just a thought?
Thoughts in the paragraph above arose about an hour ago but now they feel more remote. Last night following thoughts arose: All my life it has been “obvious” that I am aware of the world and the thoughts. Everything happens in MY awareness. There is the world that is kind of mapped in my awareness. Hard to think it could be otherwise. But I began to think that maybe the sense of me being aware of thoughts is included in thoughts. Not necessarily in all of them but in many enough to keep the belief.
I also wondered, which one is more sensible way to think: everything happens in my awareness OR everything happens in awareness. Are there reasons to assume me here? Why not choose the simpler explanation?
These thoughts also feel more remote at the moment. It seems that my thinking is losing consistence somewhat. Right now I am quite confused by “my own” thoughts and have no strong opinions about reality or anything. I even doubt my doubts!
Here are the answers for remaining questions, written yesterday. Tomorrow I might give different answers!
4. Is there a you claiming authorship, or is it only a thought claiming: 'I am authoring the thoughts'
In DE I can’t find a me claiming anything.
5. What is this me thoughts arise to? Where is that me? Or is it a thought only, that thoughts arise to anyone?
An excellent question going exactly to the point! If I exist, I must be aware of thoughts. And of course a thought can’t be aware of anything. And then there is the “sense of self”, which is a feeling or a thought, pointing to what? In DE I have never found a me, but that’s not enough. The question is, which is more reasonable, to believe in the existence of the elusive me or to conclude that it probably doesn’t exist?
A question: Where to look for answer? Logical thinking seems to lead to endless complications. Should I try to look in DE still more ferociously?
6. Are what you said in your reply other than thoughts pointing to other thoughts, pointing to other thoughts and so on? What else? Do what you say in the reply point to direct experience or to thoughts about what the direct experience must be?
My reply was what I honestly thought but not based on DE. It was what you said, thoughts pointing to others etc. DE based answer to the question “where do thoughts come from”: They just appear. Can’t find an author. Concentration may happen and direct the flow more or less.
greetings,
Sakari
Hi Sakari
You are doing good, I'm very happy with the way you work! No worries.
That was very nice to hear, thank you! I am also very happy with your guidance and especially the rational way you deal with my doubts!
There seem to be doubts whether direct experience can be trusted - isn't it just a thought suggesting that it might not?
Yes.
Let us concentrate on the separate I.
In DE there was a thought about me but no me. But I am not sure about the significance of this fact.
One of the questions bothering me most is: If thing X is absent from DE, what can be concluded about it?
Another: Are thoughts equal? (Examples: 2+2=4, 2+2=7, cats exist, unicorns exist)
If a thing is absent in direct experience, one thing that can be concluded is that it is NOT experienced right now.
Agreed.
And since right now is what IS, whatever NOT experienced is a thought about something.
Also agreed.
Now is all you have. Past is a thought, future is a thought. There is (only ever) this instant.
Sounds very sensible. I am about 99% certain it holds true. Practically agreed!
Look and see if it is true. Can you experience something that is not present this instant, as other than a thought?
No, I can’t.
If 'cat' is not here now, what is the experience of 'cat', if not a thought about having experienced 'cat' once = a thought?
Yes, it’s a thought like you said.
If a separate I isn't experienced this instant, what is it if not a thought about a separate I?
A thought, of course! But the question is does that thought point to something real or not?
Are thoughts equal?
I think they are not! 2+2=4 is a true thought, 2+2=7 is false. “Cats exist” holds almost surely true, “unicorns exist” almost surely doesn’t. Do you agree?
I think the most reliable stuff is the content of DE, being more reliable than content of any thought.
But now it occurred to me that I have spoken about my thoughts about DE, not about itself.
Oh hell. Where am I going? There is no DE and I thinking about it, right? There is just DE. Me thinking about DE is just a thought happening in DE. Can it be that I am just a thought?
Thoughts in the paragraph above arose about an hour ago but now they feel more remote. Last night following thoughts arose: All my life it has been “obvious” that I am aware of the world and the thoughts. Everything happens in MY awareness. There is the world that is kind of mapped in my awareness. Hard to think it could be otherwise. But I began to think that maybe the sense of me being aware of thoughts is included in thoughts. Not necessarily in all of them but in many enough to keep the belief.
I also wondered, which one is more sensible way to think: everything happens in my awareness OR everything happens in awareness. Are there reasons to assume me here? Why not choose the simpler explanation?
These thoughts also feel more remote at the moment. It seems that my thinking is losing consistence somewhat. Right now I am quite confused by “my own” thoughts and have no strong opinions about reality or anything. I even doubt my doubts!
Here are the answers for remaining questions, written yesterday. Tomorrow I might give different answers!
4. Is there a you claiming authorship, or is it only a thought claiming: 'I am authoring the thoughts'
In DE I can’t find a me claiming anything.
5. What is this me thoughts arise to? Where is that me? Or is it a thought only, that thoughts arise to anyone?
An excellent question going exactly to the point! If I exist, I must be aware of thoughts. And of course a thought can’t be aware of anything. And then there is the “sense of self”, which is a feeling or a thought, pointing to what? In DE I have never found a me, but that’s not enough. The question is, which is more reasonable, to believe in the existence of the elusive me or to conclude that it probably doesn’t exist?
A question: Where to look for answer? Logical thinking seems to lead to endless complications. Should I try to look in DE still more ferociously?
6. Are what you said in your reply other than thoughts pointing to other thoughts, pointing to other thoughts and so on? What else? Do what you say in the reply point to direct experience or to thoughts about what the direct experience must be?
My reply was what I honestly thought but not based on DE. It was what you said, thoughts pointing to others etc. DE based answer to the question “where do thoughts come from”: They just appear. Can’t find an author. Concentration may happen and direct the flow more or less.
greetings,
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi Sakari
A question: Where to look for answer? Logical thinking seems to lead to endless complications. Should I try to look in DE still more ferociously?
A question: Where to look for answer? Logical thinking seems to lead to endless complications. Should I try to look in DE still more ferociously?
Re: A thread with dreamer
I try again ;)
Hi Sakari
It is simply a thought that it is true and that 2 + 2 = 7 is false.
From direct experience can you find true and false? Or simply experience labelled by thought as true or false?
Good work!
Greetings Vivi
Hi Sakari
YES! Except don't try, just experience directly.A question: Where to look for answer? Logical thinking seems to lead to endless complications. Should I try to look in DE still more ferociously?
Yes! Simple. From direct experience the answers are clear and there is no doubt.My reply was what I honestly thought but not based on DE. It was what you said, thoughts pointing to others etc. DE based answer to the question “where do thoughts come from”: They just appear. Can’t find an author. Concentration may happen and direct the flow more or less.
Not enough to what/who?In DE I have never found a me, but that’s not enough.
Direct experienced what is true about 2 + 2 = 4I think they are not! 2+2=4 is a true thought, 2+2=7 is false. “Cats exist” holds almost surely true, “unicorns exist” almost surely doesn’t. Do you agree?
It is simply a thought that it is true and that 2 + 2 = 7 is false.
From direct experience can you find true and false? Or simply experience labelled by thought as true or false?
Good work!
Greetings Vivi
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi!
In DE I have never found a me, but that’s not enough.
Not enough to what/who?
To conclude that there is no me. That’s how I have thought. Today I am not 100% sure anymore.
I think they are not! 2+2=4 is a true thought, 2+2=7 is false. “Cats exist” holds almost surely true, “unicorns exist” almost surely doesn’t. Do you agree?
Direct experienced what is true about 2 + 2 = 4
It is simply a thought that it is true and that 2 + 2 = 7 is false.
From direct experience can you find true and false? Or simply experience labelled by thought as true or false?
I agree that in DE they are exactly what you said. But conventional thinking…you know. Maybe I understand your point of view better after becoming more familiar with DE.
Today I have got nothing interesting to tell about! I also haven’t thought much about these issues but kind of rested.
Greetings,
Sakari
In DE I have never found a me, but that’s not enough.
Not enough to what/who?
To conclude that there is no me. That’s how I have thought. Today I am not 100% sure anymore.
I think they are not! 2+2=4 is a true thought, 2+2=7 is false. “Cats exist” holds almost surely true, “unicorns exist” almost surely doesn’t. Do you agree?
Direct experienced what is true about 2 + 2 = 4
It is simply a thought that it is true and that 2 + 2 = 7 is false.
From direct experience can you find true and false? Or simply experience labelled by thought as true or false?
I agree that in DE they are exactly what you said. But conventional thinking…you know. Maybe I understand your point of view better after becoming more familiar with DE.
Today I have got nothing interesting to tell about! I also haven’t thought much about these issues but kind of rested.
Greetings,
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi sakari
Enjoy the day(s) off :)
Can you find something not direct experienced, that isn't thought?
Greetings
Vivi
Enjoy the day(s) off :)
Can you find something not direct experienced, that isn't thought?
Greetings
Vivi
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi!
Enjoy the day(s) off :)
Resting tasted good indeed! But as usually, in the late evening I couldn’t keep away from thinking.
For some reason I began to observe how thoughts comment what happens: I go there, I make coffee, there are things I don’t understand, I this and I that. That’s the way “I” have learnt to think and of course there is a strong belief in I caused by this constant mental repetition – completely regardless if this I exists or not. A thought appeared:”I instinctively assume there is an I”, which was quite demonstrative!:) The existence of I begins to look still more doubtful – especially with the fact that there is no solid proof of its existence. It may be that there is no I but if that is the case, it feels quite uncomfortable. How badly the absence of I will ruin “my” “understanding” about this world? And of course there is the risk that “I” ultimately exists and I have confused myself in vain!
But meanwhile there follows more thought-observing. It might also be helpful to distinguish between DE and thoughts. Let’s try. And hey, please tell me, did the realization shatter your views? And of course, if we are talking about the realization of TRUTH, it’s quite alright if it shatters something!
Can you find something not direct experienced, that isn't thought?
Tried to find, couldn’t and probably never can! If it’s not directly experienced and not even thought, how can I ever find it?
Time to sleep. Good night!
Sakari
Enjoy the day(s) off :)
Resting tasted good indeed! But as usually, in the late evening I couldn’t keep away from thinking.
For some reason I began to observe how thoughts comment what happens: I go there, I make coffee, there are things I don’t understand, I this and I that. That’s the way “I” have learnt to think and of course there is a strong belief in I caused by this constant mental repetition – completely regardless if this I exists or not. A thought appeared:”I instinctively assume there is an I”, which was quite demonstrative!:) The existence of I begins to look still more doubtful – especially with the fact that there is no solid proof of its existence. It may be that there is no I but if that is the case, it feels quite uncomfortable. How badly the absence of I will ruin “my” “understanding” about this world? And of course there is the risk that “I” ultimately exists and I have confused myself in vain!
But meanwhile there follows more thought-observing. It might also be helpful to distinguish between DE and thoughts. Let’s try. And hey, please tell me, did the realization shatter your views? And of course, if we are talking about the realization of TRUTH, it’s quite alright if it shatters something!
Can you find something not direct experienced, that isn't thought?
Tried to find, couldn’t and probably never can! If it’s not directly experienced and not even thought, how can I ever find it?
Time to sleep. Good night!
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi Sakari
Very good!
What is it that feels uncomfortable? A thought saying so? In direct experience what is feeling uncomfortable?
What would be different about the world if it is seen that there is no separate I? If it is true, a separate already isn't, it is simply a belief. What would change if that belief isn't believed any more?
Are there really a risk the the separate I exists - or is it a thought saying so?
Distinguishing between thoughts and DE is essential, so yes let's do that.
What is 'the body' when you look in direct experience, can you actually find a body? Look closely. Is it a thought: 'These sensations are my body'
What are the direct experience of 'the brain', can it actually be found in direct experience? Is it a thought:*Of course I have a brain, it is where the thoughts are coming from'.
In DE do you have a body and a brain?
why shouldn't it be allright to have the views shattered? A thought about being afraid of a change in your view? In DE can you find a 'my view'? A view at all?
Greetings
Vivi
Very good!
What is doubting that there is no separate I? Is it a thought saying so? Is it a doubt coming from direct experience? What is the direct experience? Can a separate I be found in direct experience?especially with the fact that there is no solid proof of its existence. It may be that there is no I but if that is the case, it feels quite uncomfortable. How badly the absence of I will ruin “my” “understanding” about this world? And of course there is the risk that “I” ultimately exists and I have confused myself in vain!
What is it that feels uncomfortable? A thought saying so? In direct experience what is feeling uncomfortable?
What would be different about the world if it is seen that there is no separate I? If it is true, a separate already isn't, it is simply a belief. What would change if that belief isn't believed any more?
Are there really a risk the the separate I exists - or is it a thought saying so?
But meanwhile there follows more thought-observing. It might also be helpful to distinguish between DE and thoughts. Let’s try. And hey, please tell me, did the realization shatter your views? And of course, if we are talking about the realization of TRUTH, it’s quite alright if it shatters something!
Distinguishing between thoughts and DE is essential, so yes let's do that.
What is 'the body' when you look in direct experience, can you actually find a body? Look closely. Is it a thought: 'These sensations are my body'
What are the direct experience of 'the brain', can it actually be found in direct experience? Is it a thought:*Of course I have a brain, it is where the thoughts are coming from'.
In DE do you have a body and a brain?
why shouldn't it be allright to have the views shattered? A thought about being afraid of a change in your view? In DE can you find a 'my view'? A view at all?
Greetings
Vivi
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi!
especially with the fact that there is no solid proof of its existence. It may be that there is no I but if that is the case, it feels quite uncomfortable. How badly the absence of I will ruin “my” “understanding” about this world? And of course there is the risk that “I” ultimately exists and I have confused myself in vain!
What is doubting that there is no separate I? Is it a thought saying so? Is it a doubt coming from direct experience? What is the direct experience? Can a separate I be found in direct experience?
In DE there is a feeling of uncertainty if there is a separate self or not. In DE there is no separate self. And finally in DE there is a thought that I am contradicting myself! Yes, separate self is a thought but the big question is: does that thought point to something real? And where goes the border between real and unreal? Is it between DE and thoughts? Or between (DE + true thoughts) and false thoughts? I have believed to the latter but am not 100% sure. What do you think?
What is it that feels uncomfortable? A thought saying so? In direct experience what is feeling uncomfortable?
In DE it is impossible to tell, what is feeling. There just is some discomfort.
What would be different about the world if it is seen that there is no separate I? If it is true, a separate already isn't, it is simply a belief. What would change if that belief isn't believed any more?
I don’t know. There is a slight fear if I can handle maybe radically changing views but it’s not too strong.
Are there really a risk the the separate I exists - or is it a thought saying so?
A thought says so. At this point I am really not sure.
I must be going now. Will answer remaining questions later.
greetings, Sakari
especially with the fact that there is no solid proof of its existence. It may be that there is no I but if that is the case, it feels quite uncomfortable. How badly the absence of I will ruin “my” “understanding” about this world? And of course there is the risk that “I” ultimately exists and I have confused myself in vain!
What is doubting that there is no separate I? Is it a thought saying so? Is it a doubt coming from direct experience? What is the direct experience? Can a separate I be found in direct experience?
In DE there is a feeling of uncertainty if there is a separate self or not. In DE there is no separate self. And finally in DE there is a thought that I am contradicting myself! Yes, separate self is a thought but the big question is: does that thought point to something real? And where goes the border between real and unreal? Is it between DE and thoughts? Or between (DE + true thoughts) and false thoughts? I have believed to the latter but am not 100% sure. What do you think?
What is it that feels uncomfortable? A thought saying so? In direct experience what is feeling uncomfortable?
In DE it is impossible to tell, what is feeling. There just is some discomfort.
What would be different about the world if it is seen that there is no separate I? If it is true, a separate already isn't, it is simply a belief. What would change if that belief isn't believed any more?
I don’t know. There is a slight fear if I can handle maybe radically changing views but it’s not too strong.
Are there really a risk the the separate I exists - or is it a thought saying so?
A thought says so. At this point I am really not sure.
I must be going now. Will answer remaining questions later.
greetings, Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hello, Vivi!
What is 'the body' when you look in direct experience, can you actually find a body? Look closely. Is it a thought: 'These sensations are my body'
Yes, it is a label to a bunch of sensations happening in DE. I can find those sensations and the labeling occurs very quickly and automatically.
What are the direct experience of 'the brain', can it actually be found in direct experience? Is it a thought:*Of course I have a brain, it is where the thoughts are coming from'.
In DE do you have a body and a brain?
In DE I can find no brain. It is a thought like you said. Until last few days I have thought that it points to something real. But what is the reality that true thoughts point to? Is it something else or more than thoughts? Real brain is certainly a thought but is it ONLY a thought? I don’t know yet.
why shouldn't it be allright to have the views shattered? A thought about being afraid of a change in your view?
Quite exactly!
In DE can you find a 'my view'? A view at all?
In DE there are no views!
Sakari
What is 'the body' when you look in direct experience, can you actually find a body? Look closely. Is it a thought: 'These sensations are my body'
Yes, it is a label to a bunch of sensations happening in DE. I can find those sensations and the labeling occurs very quickly and automatically.
What are the direct experience of 'the brain', can it actually be found in direct experience? Is it a thought:*Of course I have a brain, it is where the thoughts are coming from'.
In DE do you have a body and a brain?
In DE I can find no brain. It is a thought like you said. Until last few days I have thought that it points to something real. But what is the reality that true thoughts point to? Is it something else or more than thoughts? Real brain is certainly a thought but is it ONLY a thought? I don’t know yet.
why shouldn't it be allright to have the views shattered? A thought about being afraid of a change in your view?
Quite exactly!
In DE can you find a 'my view'? A view at all?
In DE there are no views!
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi Sakari
Well done!
Greetings Vivi
Well done!
Yes, what is it thoughts points to. Some thoughts points to other thoughts, what does other thoughts point to?But what is the reality that true thoughts point to?
Good question. Look at it in DE.Is it something else or more than thoughts?
Great question again, what is the answer?Real brain is certainly a thought but is it ONLY a thought? I don’t know yet
Greetings Vivi
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi!
Unfortunately I must travel away for a couple of days. I am able to write again on Wednesday or Thursday.
Greetings,
Sakari
Unfortunately I must travel away for a couple of days. I am able to write again on Wednesday or Thursday.
Greetings,
Sakari
Re: A thread with dreamer
Hi, Vivi! Home again.
But what is the reality that true thoughts point to?
Yes, what is it thoughts points to. Some thoughts points to other thoughts, what does other thoughts point to?
DE, of course!
Is it something else or more than thoughts?
Good question. Look at it in DE.
Surely DE is different from thoughts.
Real brain is certainly a thought but is it ONLY a thought? I don’t know yet
Great question again, what is the answer?
Everything I am conscious of is either DE or thought. Real brain is not directly experienced, hence it must be a thought. But I am not conscious of everything. So I can honestly say that the brain I am conscious of is a thought. But I can’t say that the brain per se, in itself is a thought!
Sakari
But what is the reality that true thoughts point to?
Yes, what is it thoughts points to. Some thoughts points to other thoughts, what does other thoughts point to?
DE, of course!
Is it something else or more than thoughts?
Good question. Look at it in DE.
Surely DE is different from thoughts.
Real brain is certainly a thought but is it ONLY a thought? I don’t know yet
Great question again, what is the answer?
Everything I am conscious of is either DE or thought. Real brain is not directly experienced, hence it must be a thought. But I am not conscious of everything. So I can honestly say that the brain I am conscious of is a thought. But I can’t say that the brain per se, in itself is a thought!
Sakari
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 162 guests