This is it

[Kim S]

Hi Pete

Just wanted to let you know that I'm down with a cold and don't have the energy to see very clearly today. Want to be sure before I answer you. Would it be ok if I get back to you tomorrow or monday?

Take care /Kim

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

Sorry to hear that you're not feeling well. Take it easy and get back to me when you feel better.

Take care,

Pete

[Kim S]

Hi Pete!

"I" is just a thought..so it can't be a thinker, doer, witness or anything at all.

Can you see that this is true?

Yes I see this.

With "you" revealed as a thought story, what remains?

What experiences?

Sensations.

What thinks?

What does?

What is aware?

No idea. That there has to be a "what" that thinks, does and awares seems to be implied by language but isn't corobborated by direct experience. Statements like "in seeing only the seen" makes sense to now and describes my direct experience.

Are we there yet? :) /Kim

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

Are we there yet?

It sure looks like it. However, it's for you to say. Are you satisfied that you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? If you've no doubts, please answer the final questions below. Once I get your answers, I'll put them forward for other guides for any comments. Then I'll arrange for you to get access to various aftercare and other groups on Facebook and the LU site.

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Lots of love,

Pete

[Kim S]

Hi Pete!

It sure looks like it. However, it's for you to say. Are you satisfied that you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? If you've no doubts, please answer the final questions below.

I'm not satisfied. I mean I have seen it, but still have a lot of doubts. When these doubts come up theres an argument between thoughts rather than a clear knowing that I would expect if I really had seen through the whole thing and dropped the belief.

Where can we go from here? One of the doubting narratives is telling me that I wanted it to be true so much, that I wasn't honest enough when answering your questions about not finding a self in different areas and thats why I can't be sure now. Could this be a way forward, doing some kind of review?

Love /Kim

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

I'm not satisfied. I mean I have seen it, but still have a lot of doubts.

I really think we have to look at what you mean here. You have SEEN it. That's great, that's what we've been working for throughout this thread. But you have "a lot of doubts". So, how can that be, if you know you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? Let's break this down.

Now, there can be doubt about whether you're sure you actually could not find a self-entity in any of the areas of direct experience, or you may have seen no self anywhere but still be assailed by recurrent doubts that you've really "got it".

From what you say,

I have seen it

and

One of the doubting narratives is telling me that I wanted it to be true so much, that I wasn't honest enough when answering your questions about not finding a self in different areas and thats why I can't be sure now.

That's a bit puzzling; either you did see that there's no " I" or you didn't. Which is it? Going back through the thread, we've looked at every area thoroughly; looking at the self as experiencer of sense arisings, doer, chooser/decider, controller, thinker and as body. To me, from all of you answers, you seemed certain, based on your direct experience, that there is no self to be found in any of these areas. However, to be sure, I posed the questions in the post dated 9 August which covered all possible areas again, followed by my questions the following day from a different perspective, all to make sure that all bases had been covered and there was no doubt about any self existing anywhere in direct experience. There appeared to be none. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that you should be absolutely sure about this and not just rely on memory. I continue to look for self in direct experience regularly to refresh things. Why not? So, what I recommend is that you go through all the areas of direct experience again and really LOOK, LOOK, LOOK to see if you can find a "me" anywhere at all to erase all trace of this doubt. The questions from my 9 August post seem ideal for this.

As to the other, "insidious doubt", as I've stressed before, thoughts, including doubts about whether you've really seen through the illusion of self will continue to pour forth. I still get them, less and less so, but they still come. There's nothing wrong with thoughts, so long as we see them for what they are. They are part of life, part of living, but they aren't real in the sense that they are simply conceptual distillations of past experiences (immediate, recent and distant) suffused with selfish desires, opinions, judgements etc. Best taken with an enormous pinch of salt! We can either believe these, entailing and relying on yet more thoughts, or see them for what they and have faith in our direct experience of what's happening in this moment.

Remember what I said about expectations and states of mind at the beginning - they are definitely not at all helpful.

I hope all's going well.

Love, Pete

[Kim S]

Hi Pete. I'm going to work with the questions from 9th August to see what comes up and then get back to you.

At home everything is going good. I hope life is treating you well also. Love /Kim

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

Great. Looking forward to hearing from you shortly so we can move forward with this.

P x

[Kim S]

Hi Pete

So after reviewing the questions you suggested I now feel ready to take on the final questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Well, there's the story of 'me', and a very persistent story at that. But no, not as a separate entity now or ever, only the story.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Like I said , it's a story. It is created by language and when language is dropped, and experience observed, the illusion is shattered. It's such a deeply ingrained story that even if I have seen through the illusion the assumption in everyday life is that 'I'm here, until I Look.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

When I first saw it there was wonder and joy and peacefullness. That has subsided to a large degree, but I think I am somewhat more easy going now, not so bothered by dark thoughts about the future.

Decisions are quicker as I don't spend so much time ruminating how something might feel if I do, or don't do, it.

When I walk around and Look, my field of view is more panoramic, as opposed to some kind of tunnel vision before, and there is a directness and clarity in what is observed. Notice more colours and beauty.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When you pointed this out to me:

Surely, once you've seen that there is no witness to be found in direct experienice, but simply witnessing, "Chasing my own tail" and "the claiming of sensations" are just other ways of saying thoughts are continually creating a story.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

I still can't wrap my head around when thinking about there not being a 'me' to live my life and do stuff, but I know it isn't there. Stuff just happens. I assume it's 'me' but everytime I look closely there is just stuff happening and 'I'm not even there to watch.

6) Anything to add?

[/quote] Nope

/Kim

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

Many thanks for your answers. I'll now submit them to the guides for any comments. I'll get back to you when I've heard from them.

Pete x

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

One of the guides has asked me to ask you the following three questions, just to make sure:

Are now "satisfied"?

Have you any doubt that you have seen through the illusion that you "are" or *have* a separate self?

What were you *expecting* to happen when you saw through the illusion that hasn't happened?


Pete x

[Kim S]

Hi Pete

Are now "satisfied"?

Have you any doubt that you have seen through the illusion that you "are" or *have* a separate self?

Yes I'm satisfied now :) I'm not doubting any more. I think reading your answers to my doubting and taking one more good look kind of was the final nail in the coffin so to speak. Also letting things settle a bit.

What were you *expecting* to happen when you saw through the illusion that hasn't happened?

- That I would feel enlightened
- that my life would somehow be very different and a lot easier
- that I wouldn't identify with negative feelings at all
- that seeing no self would be very easy or being self evident after once seeing it.

Is that enough? I can probably dig up some more if necessary.

Love/Kim

[moondog]

Thanks Kim, I've alerted the guide to your replies and will let you know if there are any more clarifations or queries as soon as I can.

P x

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

From another guide:

Regarding Q5, What can't wrap whose head around what? Is there a Kim still looking for clarity?

Pete x

[moondog]

Hi Kim,

The first guide has got back to me and simply says:

Good. And what "I" remains to feel or not-feel enlightened?

Pete x