Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

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Metta777
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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Hi Kent,
But there is confusion here of what awareness is. Is it what witnesses? Is it the result or the embodiment of witnessing. Is it just the groove of life when the I fiction is dropped? Is it just what is?

When you sit quietly with no thoughts what is still there? Do you think about breathing, smelling, seeing, etc. No, but something is still aware that there is breathing, seeing, etc. Something that needs no identity. Can there be just witnessing without identity? A baby has no self, but isn't it aware? When the fiction of I is dropped what is left. Perhaps Life just living itself in the Now moment? No separation, just witnessing? What is the experience of looking without thought? Inside,outside? Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Look4light
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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:05 pm

Hi Metta,
[quote]When you sit quietly with no thoughts what is still there? Do you think about breathing, smelling, seeing, etc. No, but something is still aware that there is breathing, seeing, etc. Something that needs no identity. Can there be just witnessing without identity? A baby has no self, but isn't it aware? When the fiction of I is dropped what is left. Perhaps Life just living itself in the Now moment? No separation, just witnessing? What is the experience of looking without thought? Inside,outside? Love, Metta the fiction of I is dropped what is left. Perhaps Life just living itself in the Now moment? No separation, just witnessing? What is the experience of looking without thought? Inside,outside[/quote?
The experience of looking without thought is one of a peaceful feeling...
I like what you say here. I like it a lot. I am concluding today a very physically challenging week; working with a carpenter. Waking up feeling like every part of my body is sore. The work is intense and even though it is our place, I am not in charge. So following your words in a demanding working environment (although pleasant) I am wondering how it plays out. Take some measurements, cut some boards, moments between these times, does the mind relax with no thought or at least letting the thoughts go, be awareness?
Love,
Kent

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi kent,

Isn't there just the awareness all the time, regardless of thought. Was there awareness before the thoughts arose? Thoughts just arise, the flow is there, everything gets done. Even without a self doesn't it just all play out?
Life...... Taking some measurements and cutting some boards . :-) Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:35 pm

Hi Metta,
Isn't there just the awareness all the time, regardless of thought. Was there awareness before the thoughts arose
I just don't have any answers to that. No yes buts. No what ifs. No what about this. Part of my identity has been my perceived ability for the yes buts...
So acceptance of the quoted question of yours without this one throwing out counter statements or questions seems paramount here. I will be sitting with this today.

Love,
Kent

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:35 pm

Hello Kent,

That is good, sit with it, see from your experiences, what is happening now if it is true. Life living itself with a consensual conceptual overlay of a fabricated identity. When reinforced by conditioning, culture, family, etc. etc. it appears real. Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:39 pm

Hello Metta,
That is good, sit with it, see from your experiences, what is happening now if it is true. Life living itself with a consensual conceptual overlay of a fabricated identity. When reinforced by conditioning, culture, family, etc. etc. it appears real.
Objects appears and is what seems to be happening now but these are kind of transitory. They may change, disappear like thoughts do. But I dare say, there seems to be a kind of backdrop to it all that for me take the visual form of animated pointilism and a feeling form of peacefulness or even sweetness.

This reminds me of a video from an interview with a physicist talking about objects appearing as probabilities, there is no objective reality otherwise why would some people grow well after only taking placebo pills, why is there a need for double blind studies in scientific experiments ect.. that there are no hard edges just molecules bouncing around.
The question or exercise you ask of me points towards a "Matrix" like reality. I keep seeing that animated pointilism when it is only slightly darkened inside or outside. Maybe these animated dots represents the energy you have alluded to. Just waves of energy we are.
so it all boils down to : I don't know, it seems quite mysterious.

Love,

-Kent

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:27 pm

Hi Kent,


That is very curious, because it seems you do know and said it very well. How can there be anything other then what is? Awareness is always there, even while sleeping or you wouldn't wake up when you are hungry. No matter what is going on eating, sleeping, breathing, seeing what is there? You spoke of the sweetness, it seems the experience is seen. Do you just not want to give up the " I " that stands for something? There is a natural joy in the now moment that I think from your responses you have felt.

Curious are the dots blue? There is nothing that I can think of that lasts forever except energy, which only transforms, and is not destroyed. Does your mind animate the body? If so why would the body cease functioning? From what is experienced, now, what has been there and is there now? If what we see is the only true thing, then why can't we even remember our own faces in detail, we see them everyday? Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:34 am

Hi Metta,
That is very curious, because it seems you do know and said it very well. How can there be anything other then what is? Awareness is always there, even while sleeping or you wouldn't wake up when you are hungry. No matter what is going on eating, sleeping, breathing, seeing what is there?
Me thinks that it is just a confusion of the term awareness and its connotations. Specifically, there is confusion of when this one has aligned with the now or in the now and it is that I thought you were asking about "sit with it, see what is there" and so I did. There is confusion of the word awareness, it can imply that a person (like myself) is aware of the present or it can imply that something even some unifying force is aware as transitory events and objects go fluttering by. I see it as both.

But have I got it all figured out? That would be a big negative. I don't know why some circumstances come or others do not, I don't know why certain people come and go. Oh i have theories but I don't know them to be absolutely true. They are just theories like this one needs to learn from this ect. Do I know that reincarnation is absolutely certain? No I don't but it sure makes a lot of sense. So that is what I mean by I don't know. Sometimes I write stuff and I don't know how it is going to be received.

Love,
-Kent

P.S. the dots are quite dark,almost black

-

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:31 pm

Hi Kent,

Awareness is, if there is no I, how can there be an individual awareness?
Me thinks that it is just a confusion of the term awareness and its connotations. Specifically, there is confusion of when this one has aligned with the now or in the now and it is that I thought you were asking about "sit with it, see what is there" and so I did. There is confusion of the word awareness, it can imply that a person (like myself) is aware of the present or it can imply that something even some unifying force is aware as transitory events and objects go fluttering by. I see it as both.
Does awareness separate into pieces? Does everything flow through awareness? Awareness can't be owned can it? How is it yours? Remember the relative and the absolute. Give it some thought. Reincarnation is not a problem that I can see, but it is not something we really get into here.

Okay, if you are willing we need to get a little radical here in the exercise department. This works real well for most folks. It is called serious sitting. Follow the instructions exactly and we will see what flows from this.

But you have to be determined and committed to doing it. First day, pick a time when you can be undisturbed for an hour, try to sit in lotus posture if possible ,if not some other meditation position. for that hour you will maintain that position without moving, no getting up to drink or pee, lol, nothing. so do what you have to do before. After awhile you will notice some discomfort. Focus in on that discomfort, feel it, give it attention, then after 3 to 5 minutes of focus on the discomfort, zoom out, take the discomfort and feel it spreading everywhere throughout your body.All the way to the top of your head. Now after spreading, contract back down to the discomfort again, focus on the pain or discomfort, give it love and attention. Feel the place that hurts. Now again zoom out, feel the discomfort spreading all through out your body. Do this a two or three times, go slowly, focusing intently. You may feel a spreading sensation or not, It happens unconsciously for some, but it sets something in motion. Now, it is not uncommon in this practice, when still, to have shocking thoughts come up, even violent thoughts, but just notice them,let them pass without giving them undue attention. It may not even happen, but if it does you won't be surprised. If it does, switch focus onto your nostrils and feel the breath coming in and out of your nostrils and just chill out then. Letting silence take you. The next day, just do your usual thing. The third day, this is a little more difficult, but important to do it. Sit in meditation for 2 hours.
Do the same spreading and contracting, spreading and contracting with body sensations. Then finish up with breathing at the end of the two hours. Write it down, all the experiences and when I get back we will discuss them. This is a serious practice and only a few do not get immediate results from it if done correctly.

Unexpectedly I am going on a short vacation trip, I will be gone until Sun. and resume guiding on Mon. Take care, Namaste and Regards, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:11 am

Hi Metta
Lately I have been trying to communicate and apparently not doing a very good job. It feels like the intention of my words are not coming through. This has led to me opening a post with a little bit of fear - feeling like I need to clarify what I say because the wrong meaning has come through to you
Does awareness separate into pieces? Does everything flow through awareness? Awareness can't be owned can it? How is it yours? Remember the relative and the absolute. Give it some thought. Reincarnation is not a problem that I can see, but it is not
First of all, your question of whether awareness can separate into pieces is a good one. Of course it cannot and is a good lesson
But your question about how is it yours and can it be owned is beyond what I was attempting to communicate here into some other place. I never said I owned a piece of awareness. My intention was to convey that when this person is aligned as in the present moment, this is a taste of awareness. No I don't own stock in consciousness. : )
As far as my comment about not absolutely knowing whether reincarnation is real, I hesitated to mention it, fearing you might take it the wrong way Metta, I know that this is not a subject for discussion here. My point and my absolute only point was just to say that there are things that I don't know for sure about. That is all, nothing more. At best it was such a minor point (not knowing some things) maybe it wasn't worth saying (two posts ago) but I tried to clarify and seemed to make things worse. I did not intend to say I did not know, only there were things I did not know. I hope this makes sense & I will work on communicating better Part of the problem is the medium of email

Now I will start the exercise you have asked me to do. I hope you enjoy your vacation On Sunday through Wednesday my wife will be on a camping trip but I will try to communicate as best as I can
With Respect,
-Kent

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:41 am

HI Kent,

Yes, I think there must be a misunderstanding of my question. What I meant by ownership was it implies that there is a person to own anything or the words, me, my, etc. Just was pointing to the use of personal pronouns as a way to still claim and I or identity. Does it matter if the wrong meaning came through? Why would it?
This has led to me opening a post with a little bit of fear - feeling like I need to clarify what I say because the wrong meaning has come through to you
There is no reason to fear anything from me. Sure you need to clarify because we are doing and investigation into your experience, how would we do that without clarification?
As far as my comment about not absolutely knowing whether reincarnation is real, I hesitated to mention it, fearing you might take it the wrong way Metta, I know that this is not a subject for discussion here
I think this is very interesting, who is there to take something the wrong way?? :-) It is absolutely alright to not know something. There is no right or wrong thing to say.
I just had a chance to reply, everyone is outside. Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:25 am

Hi Metta,
I think this is very interesting, who is there to take something the wrong way?? :-) It is absolutely alright to not know something. There is no right or wrong thing to say.
I just had a chance to reply, e
There is nothing wrong with it at all, it is very liberating. I did not mean to imply that there was something wrong here, just stating an observation. Observations can be just that, observations.

I just finished my second part of the exercise just a half an hour ago:


Notes:
The usual itches on my face, and nose initially I scratch then I remember I have to be still.
Periodically I glance over to the timer. My right foot starts to fall asleep as it does. I ignore.
The foot asleep turns to pain and I try being in the pain, facing it. I then try growing it out with a limited success. I turn to conscous breathing and sometimes I am able to forget about the pain. These things repeat throughout the hour long.
The pain spreads to my lower legs both left and right. Sometimes tinges of sharp pain at my lower thigh next to my knee. I have to keep myself still. My body creaks.
When I am close to the hour up, the pain increases which is interesting since I know that the hour is almost up. Still there is a serentity here. After the hour is up, I lean back against the couch (I am on the floor). Both my legs are completely asleep so I have to gently put weight into them.

2nd Session
I gave myself a little break on this one. I sat on a zafu cushion on the floor in a half lotus position like last time but gave myself a back support by positioning myself against the back of the bedboard. This bedroom downstairs is next to the laundry room and at first the washer going was a little distracting. I put the timer which is an app on my i-phone away from close proximity. Later at 1 hour 36 minutes I reached for it and checked the time. I did this three other time. At first there was a sense of no reason to think about the end here so I got into staring at the louvered door to the closet which was directly in front of me. It took a bit for the foot to go asleep but then what followed was pain, sometimes excruciating pain. I tried the moving the pain up through my spine with some limited success. The pain the last half an hour was acute and being in it, surrendering to it and the breathing is what ended up happening. I was forced to be in every moment. I surrendered to the moment and the pain and wondered how I could be such a projection oriented person. But I also thought, I’m not doing this again!
After checking the time at different intervals, and finally with 1:54 left, I knew I was going to make it. My right knee was especially painful and I suspect that there is a little arthritis in it. I thought, this will be over and in the past, just water flowing under the bridge but there were some times that I just wanted to quit.
When finally the bells on my meditation app dinged, I was so grateful. I slowly got out of position only to have my left foot spasm. I lay on the floor for some minutes. It was very nice but then raising myself up, my right leg started to cramp, so I immediately put weight on it. Also, my back threatened to act up. When I meditate on a cushion, I always switch leg positions every fifteen minutes or so.
During the meditation, there was heavy breathing with a kind of moan going on. Also, head sensations but not unpleasant ones. As I write this (immediately afterwards) the pleasant head sensations continue, the wonderment of not wanting to be projecting. Again the animated pointillism showed up but taking a very role to the pain. Last night I watched on PBS a show about the Siberian Tigers and how a Korean man stayed in a dug out hole in the ground for months to get close to the tigers, never venturing out, living on rice and nuts and salt, putting his waste in sealed plastic bags and I thought about the Asthetics (?) of India on the show the other night about the Buddha. I was in real surrender to the pain and to the moment, no ego.

Thanks,

-Kent

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Metta777
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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:36 am

Hi Kent,

The focus is off here, it is not about wrong, it was about pointing to there not being a self to make that value judgement. Please consider projection of feelings onto others here done by the ego, which is always the case when fear , shows up or value judgements . Step back for a second and look at what is known to be true. Is it true that things you say bother me and there is a cause for fear?
feeling like I need to clarify what I say because the wrong meaning has come through to you
Truth, Is there an I to even get or give a wrong meaning. How do you know what has come through? Aren't feelings ,thoughts and projections just more stories.

You did well with the exercises, I think there might have been a breakthrough with the projecting. At least it sounds like it. My daughter has a laptop , they are in bed, so I thought I would check in, after a long day at the beach, going to bed myself shortly.
The physical discomfort is an import part of this meditation, something has been set in motion here, it may not be apparent at first. Interested to hear if anything else has showed up since the exercise and this last post. Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:56 pm

Hi Metta,
Truth, Is there an I to even get or give a wrong meaning. How do you know what has come through? Aren't feelings ,thoughts and projections just more stories.
But is there not a danger if a meaning has been misconstrued, that discussing that misconstrued meaning is like discussing a piece of fiction or just a hypothetical situation that may or may not occur? Of course they are all stories but it seems to this one that some stories become more relevant than others. Discussing Brer Rabbit's situation could be interesting but maybe not terribly relevant. : ) But perhaps I should give the same reverence of discussing Brer Rabbit as the fictional character, Kent. The idea just coming now that when I get into ownership about what I said, to remember Brer Rabbit and put Kent into that category.

I think that there has been some carryover from the (painful) exercise of the other night. I was in a spice shop yesterday and I dealt with an elderly man who had slow pacing. I just coming off a 40 hour work week, had more speeded up pacing, and a little too late I caught myself not being present for a part of what he had to say. I thought afterwards, that I did not listen to a part of what he said; there was interference on my part. I don't think the awareness (on my part) would have been there if not for the exercise because it has come back to my in thoughts from time to time.

Tomorrow, I am off for a four day camping trip with my wife and some friends on a lake in the Oregon Cascade Mountains. There is no electricity to charge my cell phone and a possibility of no cell phone coverage. I will post on Wednesday or even tomorrow morning (or tonight) if your post comes through in time but the best that I can do is maybe post once during the camping trip.

Love,

-(Brer) Kent

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Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:15 am

Hi Briar Kent,

There is no danger Briar, except being thrown into the thorn patch. Yes, it is good to discuss everything, especially when it concerns the fabricated Kent and the stories that are woven and projected outward. Then Briar Kent believes them. :-) Yes, good insight there, ownership may be just an attitude, as husbands thinking that wives are property so to speak. That's a good story isn't.
It happens that there can be a drifting in and out of wakefulness, but that exercise has started a process and it will continue manifesting changes.
Some good insight. Enjoy your trip. That's fine, get back when you can. Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"


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