I would like a guide

[nonaparry]

The possibility of a dramatic shift in my seeing.

What about the possibility there is NO dramatic shift in your seeing?? What if you discover that what you SEE is what was here all along, but overlooked?

Seeing through the illusion of being or having a separate self is not dramatic. It's a shift in perspective, and can be quite subtle. Fireworks is not the norm when SEEing this.

[jriley1779]

You're right. You didn't tell me not to touch the wall. Can't believe i missed that. My direct experience of the exercise was: The thought came to touch the wall. Then I sat for about five minutes and the wall was not touched. I see now what you say about choice/action being the same as sight/seeing and hearing/sound. Both are happening simultaneously but i've been interpreting it as one influencing the other. Volitional thoughts do not seem more convincing now that it's seen that they do not always turn out to be true. Also, actions can occur without any thought beforehand thus proving that there is no need for thought to initiate an action. No there is no such thing as volition in sensation prior to thought. Sensations occur without thought. With regard to the mind not knowing what will happen if I see through the illusion of separate self I made the assumption that the mind does not know based on the fact that it's not giving any answers. Either way the mind is still not telling.

[jriley1779]

There is no fear in this moment.
There is no expectation of a dramatic shift in seeing.
There is a slight wondering about whether the shift in perspective could be so subtle that it will not even be noticed.

[jriley1779]

Hi Nona,

I meant to say previously regarding volition in sensation prior to thought that no, volition is not found in sensation, only in thought.
Let me take this opportunity to thank you again for all you're doing and for your time. Much appreciated.

Love
Jason

[nonaparry]

Dear Jason,

How ya doin'?

I see now what you say about choice/action being the same as sight/seeing and hearing/sound. Both are happening simultaneously but i've been interpreting it as one influencing the other.

Yes. Those pesky interpretations get in the way of SEEing what is actually happening. That's why it's good to drop into direct experience which is prior to thought.

Also, actions can occur without any thought beforehand thus proving that there is no need for thought to initiate an action. No there is no such thing as volition in sensation prior to thought. Sensations occur without thought.

Isn't that amazing to notice? No need at all for any thought to initiate an action. Therefore no need for choice, for motivation, for any story that Explains why an event occured. It simply occurred.

With regard to the mind not knowing what will happen if I see through the illusion of separate self I made the assumption that the mind does not know based on the fact that it's not giving any answers.

Good catch! Those unquestioned assumptions fly low under the radar; it's good to catch them and expose them to the light of inquiry!

There is a slight wondering about whether the shift in perspective could be so subtle that it will not even be noticed.

You've seen a lot pretty quickly since beginning this dialogue. Would you care to describe what you now mean when you write "I" and "me" now? Has there been a shift for you in what "I", "self", "me" refer to? As you look around and see events occurring, how do you describe them to yourself?

Let me take this opportunity to thank you again for all you're doing and for your time. Much appreciated.

My dear, you are very welcome. And this is just the beginning. This tool of LOOKing, of dropping into your direct experience, can be used to find your truth in any inquiry.

love
Nona

[jriley1779]

Hi Nona,

When I write the words 'I', 'me', 'mine' they are just words. They have lost their strength. They do not constitute anything in reality. It is seen that they will likely always be used as they are very useful tools for communicating but they will never refer to anything solid, least of all me. I'm currently in work right now alone in an office and not much is going on. I will have to check later how I describe events to myself when I'm somewhere a bit more lively. Funnily, the body just dozed off for a little while and has just come to again.
When you say 'this is just the beginning' do you mean to say that this seeing will continue to get stronger as time goes on? I'm just using the word 'time' again for the sake of simpler communication. There is a strong desire to get involved in helping others who are seeking the truth. How to go about this? Obviously life will just happen the way it will but the question arises none the less.

Thanks,

Love
Jason

[jriley1779]

Nona, do you think it would be helpful for me to make notes on this dialog to aid in remembering what has been seen so far. My memory is pretty poor at best and I don't want to forget the important insights and truths that have been seen and have to start over from scratch. Thanks

[jriley1779]

Oh another thing. I have two children aged 11 and 5 and I worry about them suffering in the way I have (not that I have suffered a great deal) over life. Obviously I'd like for them to be liberated but is it best to try to show them the truth or just let their lives unfold as they may and don't get involved? Again I know life will happen the way it chooses.

Thanks

Jason

[nonaparry]

Jason,

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?

love
Nona

[jriley1779]

I don't think so. Nothing has really changed in my experience. I expected that it would happen gradually as I continue to remain in direct experience and see life as just happening all around with no doers.

[jriley1779]

Nona, this is how I describe events to myself. I use labels even though I know they do not describe the real thing. Cars are driving. People are walking around. Kids are playing. Birds are flying. My daughter is showing me something on her tablet. Sounds are appearing. I also found myself saying such things as 'life is expressing itself as a man on a motorcycle' behind me whilst driving. Also when a car honked at me impatiently I felt annoyed for a second and then said to myself 'it's just life expressing itself as an impatient driver' There was no sense that it was expressing anger toward me. It was just what it was.

[nonaparry]

Hi Jason,

Nothing has really changed in my experience.

What are you expecting will change?
Life doesn't alter to accommodate clear SEEing; clarity is simply seeing Life as it has always been: without an entity "I".

I use labels even though I know they do not describe the real thing.

Yes; the labels are required for communication to happen.

It's late here; tomorrow I will give you some exercises to play with. In the meantime, just keep LOOKing at Life happening from the perspective of sensation-prior-to-thought. Notice how Life just keeps on keeping on, without an I or a me and without choices or control.

See you tomorrow!
love
Nona

[jriley1779]

I don't think I'm expecting life to change in any way. Life has already changed a lot in the past couple of years. I used to be a very shy withdrawn and self-conscious person and I have changed into a more outgoing, confident person who does not care much any more what others think of him. I can't help but think that this has something to do with the belief in a separate self slowly weakening over time. This could all be pure speculation I know. Either way as you remember, I said at the beginning that I was hoping to find some truth and I feel I have found it. I feel like I will apply what I've learned here in life situations as they come about. I feel like I will no longer judge myself or others as there is no one carrying out their or my actions. I know I'll never again suffer over the ideas of religion and question whether I should be being a better person or devoting my life to god. I feel like i do see the truth of there being no self but I feel that it may take time to really sink in. I really don't know how it's supposed to be or feel when the illusion of self is clearly seen through. Maybe you could share what it was like for you. This is what I meant when I said that I wonder if the shift will be so subtle that I don't notice it. Maybe this will be the case. If so then knowing it will have to suffice.

Thanks again

Love
Jason

[jriley1779]

I look forward to the exercises tomorrow and will continue to keep looking at life from the perspective of sensation prior to thought. See you then.

[nonaparry]

Dearest Jason,

I feel like i do see the truth of there being no self but I feel that it may take time to really sink in.

Yes, it takes time to integrate the SEEing into daily life, into new habits of thinking and behaving. No worries — we all find this is the case. And we have groups where the experience and its implications can be discussed among peers who have seen it.
Do you have any doubt at all that there is no such entity "self" that runs a separate slice of Life, that Does things, that Controls things?
If yes, let's get it on the table and Check it!

I really don't know how it's supposed to be or feel when the illusion of self is clearly seen through. Maybe you could share what it was like for you. This is what I meant when I said that I wonder if the shift will be so subtle that I don't notice it. Maybe this will be the case. If so then knowing it will have to suffice.

Good! No one really knows how it's supposed to be or feel when the illusion is clearly seen through. I can only say that the experience is very "individual" while being completely "impersonal". By that I mean each of us experiences it quite differently, yet when the lack of any separation between "us and them" or hearer and sound, see-er and seen, subject and object is SEEN in direct experience, one realises it is not at all personal — no-separation applies to all people, animals, things, thoughts, feelings... indiscriminately.

How to describe what cannot be said in words? I'm no poet. What I SAW was that I invent a Story of Nona and what she's doing, and mind describes this constantly in a sort of voice-over, like a Commentator describing the sport of "my life". What caught my attention was that the commentary invariably was delayed, coming marginally *after* the action. "Nona's walking to the kitchen" would be announced as she arrived at the kitchen; "Nona's washing a plate" would come over a nanosecond *after* the plate was washed. The commentary never exactly matched the direct experience, like a movie out of sync with its soundtrack. I noticed I had a whole Story about what was happening that was not what was happening. The Story and the direct experience were out of sync.

I don't know if that helps?

Some experiences of SEEing in direct experience that there is no separate entity "self" in reality include recognising that there is no one carrying out actions, stopping judgments based on the illusion that someone does, and the cessation of suffering over "self-improvement" or what to do.

What sets mental understanding [that there is no actual entity "self"] apart from the experience of it? Check it!
Tell yourself there is no such entity "self" and then check in your direct experience if it is true. This should be easy — if there actually IS such an entity that runs your life, that DOES the things attributed to Jason, that Controls the events in Jason's experience, that should be pretty easy to find, right? If it exists! It would be pretty darn noticeable that this entity shows up whenever there is something to be done or a choice to be made.

But if all that shows up is just Life living itself, what do we make of that? If the alleged entity cannot be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, or touched, what does that leave but a thought + an image?
"Your Honour, I have a thought + an image of an entity "self", therefore self exists as a separate entity" — said no one ever.
But the reality is, this is how our thinking works.
Until it doesn't.

I'll be back with some exercises in case they are still needed.
with love
Nona