Requesting a Guide

[Bill1000]

Hi Coll,

would you like the final questions then?

Yes, let's work on the final questions.

[open space]

HI Bill,

super,
here they are,
take your time, enjoy and meet you back here.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?


lovely to travel with you here,
Coll

[open space]

and few more to play with and share the answers that arise....

Yes, let's work on the final questions.

8) has anything ever been "work" or have all "answers"/final questions in life always arose on their own all along? :)

9) look at your life experiences up until now.... the "good, the bad, the ugly", the pain, the pleasure, the joy, the separation, the humor, the love, the suffering, the peace, the freedom, has it all arose of it's own, even the controller?

10) look at apparent others lives...mother, father, partner, child, boss, guru, teacher, etc... has that all arose of it's own as well for that arising character?

11) Is there such a thing as separation?

"Have you asked you, you have all the answers, have u noticed?"

[Bill1000]

Hi Coll,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, the "self" does not actually exist. It never has.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the self is the impression that there is a continuous unit of identity which is the subject of a life's experiences. That is, it's the impression that "I" perform actions with this body, "I" think with this brain, "I" interact with a world which is "not-I" — that "I" have been the one doing all this from the day this body was born. But in fact, upon examination, there is no such unit of identity to be found anywhere. Rather, self is a set of ideas that arise from moment to moment. It's a stringing together of memories and desires, but since it is a matter of thought, it's not continuous. An automatically arising thought process must continually rebuild this illusory self. It is a process that occurs when attention turns way from reality towards an imaginary unreality. There are imaginings of the self struggling for survival, imaginings of the self confronting unpleasant situations, imaginings of the self longing to fulfill its desires — and such imaginings necessarily entail emotions of frustration, sadness, and anger.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It is a great relief to see this. Realizing that "I" do not control experiences, nor own them, nor identify with them — because there is in fact no real, continuous "self" at all to control, own, or identify with any experience — it is so much easier to just let go. Situations that formerly led to much frustration do not do so now. This is a notable change. Experience just happens, just flows, and in that there is peace.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The dialogue on this forum forced an abandonment of excuses not to look.

(To be continued)

[Bill1000]

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

"I" do not decide, intend, choose, or control events in life. "I" make nothing happen. The notion of conscious decision making is part of the illusion of self. That is, the feeling that "I" have intended or chosen to perform an action occurs only in the context of the same thought process that fuels the impression that a self exists. Apart from that, no evidence of conscious choice is detectable. In truth, all action, even thought, arises in non-conscious processes. This is noticeable even in very common, everyday events. Take, for instance, the action of eating. There is not a conscious choice made in how to move the jaw, how to move the tongue, etc. It happens automatically. The process of walking is another good example — the specific procedure of moving both legs requires no conscious intention or decision making. Likewise with this very process of typing on a keyboard, which occurs right now. No conscious choice — this is true for all action, all events.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you for providing this valuable service on a free forum.

8) has anything ever been "work" or have all "answers"/final questions in life always arose on their own all along?

That's true — these answers really do arise on their own.

9) look at your life experiences up until now.... the "good, the bad, the ugly", the pain, the pleasure, the joy, the separation, the humor, the love, the suffering, the peace, the freedom, has it all arose of it's own, even the controller?

Yes, everything has arisen on its own.

10) look at apparent others lives...mother, father, partner, child, boss, guru, teacher, etc... has that all arose of it's own as well for that arising character?

Yes. There is no other possibility.

11) Is there such a thing as separation?

Not really. "Separation," like "self," is thought.

[open space]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to share
these answers that yes so perfectly arise of there own.
Will look over here and share with other guides to see if there are any further questions to ask.

Loving,
Coll

[open space]

Hi Bill,


Want to check in as well as your answers look really clear here and I also like to look at one's original reason for coming to LU that you first wrote and read it over to see if it gave u the full experience you wanted ....

Hi!

As a concept, the non-existence of self makes a lot of sense to me, but I can't quite figure out how to move beyond merely agreeing with it intellectually. I want to perceive directly the self's non-existence. I hope one of the guides here can help me.

does it feel your experience has moved beyond "agreeing with it intellectually" to directly experiencing self non existing?
if so will you share in detail how this has changed for you?

loving,
Coll

[Bill1000]

Hi Coll,

does it feel your experience has moved beyond "agreeing with it intellectually" to directly experiencing self non existing?
if so will you share in detail how this has changed for you?

Yes, my experience has moved beyond an intellectual agreement with the notion of the self's non-existence.

Before participating in this dialogue, "non-self" appealed to me as a theory, but that's all it was — a concept, one which I approved of, one I wished to be true, because it is a component of (or at least compatible with) certain belief systems toward which I had an emotional attachment. I had no idea what it would be like to actually perceive non-self in practical terms. In fact, now that I think of it, it seems I was mostly happy simply to play with the idea of non-self in my thoughts, treating it like just another philosophical or theological tenet. At most, I expected that the experience of non-self must be tied to unusual states of consciousness, surely to be attained only by sages after years of practice. And yet I had also reached a point where I suspected that, if an experience of non-self were possible to attain at all, the path of studying ancient texts and doing religious practices for years on end might be just a way of avoiding what really needed to be done.

So, when I stumbled across a link to LU one day on a Buddhist forum, I was impressed with what I saw and decided to give it a shot. Initially I think I had some difficulty with the conversation here precisely because I was expecting some kind of striking epiphany, some mind-blowing experience, to precede any understanding of what non-self is. If you go back to early posts in the thread, you'll see comments I made about feeling a "resistance." Really, that was just a reluctance to look, a grasping for any flimsy excuse not to look into the process of thought — and thus an attempt to allow the ingrained habit of self-thought to continue in its usual mode of operation. Luckily, though, you snapped me out of it. Actually, it was surprisingly simple to see it. Once I stopped making excuses, there it was, very plainly. The sensation of being a self, the sensation that "I" am the protagonist of the story of "my" life, is the product of thought. And when the particular thought processes that lead to the impression of selfhood stop, the self is simply gone. It's not there. It's nowhere, because it has no permanence, no continuity beyond the moment in which thought renews the illusion. And curiously, directly apprehending the fact of the self's unreality did indeed trigger a very unusual state of consciousness, as I mentioned a while back — so you could say that happened in the reverse order from what I had anticipated.

Now, having seen it, the truth of the matter has become inescapable. The impression of a self arises, but soon fizzles away because I cannot help but see through it to the thought processes underlying the illusion. Consequently, old frustrations, old worries, old attachments are falling away as the mirage they depended on disappears. Where this is heading, I'm not sure. But in any case, I am glad that I had this conversation with you, Colleen.

[open space]

Hi Bill,

beautiful Bill, thank u for sharing all that you wrote, love connecting to it.

Actually, it was surprisingly simple to see it. Once I stopped making excuses, there it was, very plainly. The sensation of being a self, the sensation that "I" am the protagonist of the story of "my" life, is the product of thought. And when the particular thought processes that lead to the impression of selfhood stop, the self is simply gone. It's not there. It's nowhere, because it has no permanence, no continuity beyond the moment in which thought renews the illusion.

yes it makes excuses till it doesn't and then commits and looks, incredible when that just happens!

loved sharing this conversation with u too,
will be back if there are any other questions from other guides,
Coll

[open space]

Hi Bill,

it is all clear here and no more questions to ask.
Nothing left to look for; beautiful looking.
Will be in touch by PM with invites to the FB group for LU if you are interested.

it was a wonderful to share in this experience with you.

loving,
Coll

[Bill1000]

Hi Coll,

Thank you very much for your guidance. It is much appreciated!