confusion. someone willing to guide?

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Jorge786
Posts: 1403
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Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:28 pm

Hi Toma!
all this thinking makes it hard to understand what is real.
what you see when you look directly without the "mind" labeling... is real
the thought "what is real?" is happening, is emerging
what are asking, what supposedly are thinking "what is real?"... that... is not real!.
nobody is asking "what is real?", is just a thought emerging
but those are such beautiful dreamplaces that it is hard to leave.
there is a peaceful "place" because the "mind", the thoughts, are like a hammer hitting constantly, making noise and unreal suffering, when the "mind" is seen like really is (just thoughts), then "this" is a peaceful place

there is a sufi story
"A neighbor went to greet Nasruddin
and found him with a hammer hitting the head
Why do that? - He asked
Nasruddin said - It just feels so good when I stop!!!"

close your eyes for a minutes, let the sounds happen and the sensations happen... where are you?

Best Regards
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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waterdog
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Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:39 pm

Hi Jorge!

I honestly dont know.

Love
Toma

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Jorge786
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:19 am

Hi Toma

but if you have the feeling that "Toma" exist... then it must be somewhere
Don't you think?

Love!
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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waterdog
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Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:37 am

Hi Jorge!

No, I dont think so. When I have the feeling of tha "Toma" exist, then that is a feeling. Right now I dont have that feeling. It is just like: I dont know.
A thought: I think it can be like that with sensations, like feelings of love, even if it is not possible to find the "love".
Feelings of hunger, without the hunger being somewhere.

Love!
Toma

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Jorge786
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Ok Toma!

What do you feel, are you seen through the illusion of the "I"?

Best regards
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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waterdog
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:39 pm

Jorge!

Yes, I think so, it feels like that.

Best regards!

Toma

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Jorge786
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Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:46 pm

Ok!, Great!

would you mind answering a few final questions?

Best regards
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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waterdog
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:37 am

That is alright!

Love
Toma

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Jorge786
Posts: 1403
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Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:36 pm

Here there are:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?

Please, take your time and respond in detail from direct experience

Best regards
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

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waterdog
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 pm

Hi Jorge!

1) No, there are different bodies and I can feel inside and outside of one body, but there is no seperation between me and the life, the other bodies (human, plants and animals, maybe even the rest of the materia, it is only vibrations). This means that what I call I, or the experiencing of things, is really nothing, it is just everything happening together and nothing can be separated or watching from the outside, because everything just is. this also means that there never was a separate entity self.
2) The illusion of the separate self is the feeling of that something can go wrong and that maybe there is someone to blame. it is feelings and thoughts of identification with feelings or thoughts. it can be memories from the past, maybe something that was painful or stressful or hard to understand and that lingers on in the body and mind. it starts whenever there is a thought or feeling of that there is a separate self. it sometimes makes the heart beat in a stressful way, and the thoughts sometimes get stuck. the illusion of self may create fear because there are feelings of being alone or in the wrong place, and feelings of not relying on the present truth.
3) It feels like all the time there is a way out, to know that everything I need is right there. Sometimes the thoughts and feelings lingers long away from this and look at totally different things, but there is an extended attention in the backround, like a small knowledge. it feels safe. it can feel like only looking. looking at everything once and never more, forever. on the inside and on the outside, without knowing the difference. there is only one side and it is on the inside and on the outside.
4) One moment that is clear in memory right now is the moment when I was reading something in this dialogue that "I" wrote, and at the same time seeing the picture (in my mind) of the body writing that sentence down, and the thoughts inside that head. it was like watching a machine. it was a confused feeling at that time (when writing it), and when looking back at it, it felt very clear and like jumping out in something silent in a movie, that became the now :) the last bit was a couple of days watching things happening very slow, and looking for entities everywhere. until

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waterdog
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:50 pm

Hi Jorge!

1) No, there are different bodies and I can feel inside and outside of one body, but there is no seperation between me and the life, the other bodies (human, plants and animals, maybe even the rest of the materia, it is only vibrations). This means that what I call I, or the experiencing of things, is really nothing, it is just everything happening together and nothing can be separated or watching from the outside, because everything just is. this also means that there never was a separate entity self.
2) The illusion of the separate self is the feeling of that something can go wrong and that maybe there is someone to blame. it is feelings and thoughts of identification with feelings or thoughts. it can be memories from the past, maybe something that was painful or stressful or hard to understand and that lingers on in the body and mind. it starts whenever there is a thought or feeling of that there is a separate self. it sometimes makes the heart beat in a stressful way, and the thoughts sometimes get stuck. the illusion of self may create fear because there are feelings of being alone or in the wrong place, and feelings of not relying on the present truth.
3) It feels like all the time there is a way out, to know that everything I need is right there. Sometimes the thoughts and feelings lingers long away from this and look at totally different things, but there is an extended attention in the backround, like a small knowledge. it feels safe. it can feel like only looking. looking at everything once and never more, forever. on the inside and on the outside, without knowing the difference. there is only one side and it is on the inside and on the outside.
4) One moment that is clear in memory right now is the moment when I was reading something in this dialogue that "I" wrote, and at the same time seeing the picture (in my mind) of the body writing that sentence down, and the thoughts inside that head. it was like watching a machine. it was a confused feeling at that time (when writing it), and when looking back at it, it felt very clear and like jumping out in something silent in a movie, that became the now :) the last bit was a couple of days watching things happening very slow, and looking for entities everywhere. until

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waterdog
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:54 pm

Hi!

oh, something went wrong and i posted before finished or reading through, will continue and then post again!

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Jorge786
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:13 pm

ok
Do not worry at all, even if want to make an entirely new post you can also
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!

User avatar
waterdog
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby waterdog » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:35 pm

Hi Jorge!

1) No, there are different bodies and I can feel inside and outside of one body, but there is no seperation between me and life, the other bodies (human, plants and animals, maybe even the rest of the materia, it is only vibrations). This means that what I call I, or the experiencing of things, is really nothing, it is just everything happening together and nothing can be separated or watching from the outside, because everything just is. this also means that there never was a separate entity self. there is no me. there is life. this is.
2) The illusion of the separate self can be the feeling of that something can go wrong and that maybe there is someone to blame. it is feelings and thoughts of identification with feelings or thoughts. it can be memories from the past, maybe something that was painful or stressful or hard to understand and that lingers on in the body and mind. it starts whenever there is a thought or feeling of that there is a separate self. it sometimes makes the heart beat in a stressful way, and the thoughts sometimes get stuck. the illusion of self may create fear because there are feelings of being alone or in the wrong place, and feelings of not relying on the present truth.
3) It feels like all the time there is a way out(/in), an underlying peace, to know that everything I need is right there(/here). Sometimes the thoughts and feelings lingers long away from this and look at totally different things, but there is an extended attention in the backround, like a small knowledge. it feels safe. it can feel like only looking. looking at everything once and never more, forever. on the inside and on the outside, without knowing the difference. there is only one side and it is on the inside and on the outside.
4) One moment that is clear in memory right now is the moment when I was reading something in this dialogue that "I" wrote, and at the same time seeing the picture (in mind) of the body writing that sentence down, and the thoughts inside that head. it was like watching a machine. it was a confused feeling at that time (when writing it), and when looking back at it, it felt very clear and like jumping out in something silent in a movie, that became the now :) like the thoughts had been running around and the body too, without any owner, it was a funny feeling to feel that the thoughts and feeling was running around in the present. like running thoughts of running thoughts, and running feelings of running feelings. and since that running on like a giant snowball. the last bit was also a couple of days watching things happening very slow, and looking for entities everywhere. looking and feeling and thinking, don't really know what happened.
5) No, things happen. or just is. everything are connected and affecting everything and nothing is happening by itself because everything is the same stuff. there can be feelings and thoughts of "trying" or "wanting to control", feelings and thoughts of separation, self or "other people". that too is experience, the present moment. that is. i mean what is, is. at this moment. now writing this. maybe doing it good or bad, but it is the truth, right now. since there is no me, I don't decide or controle anything. only one experience at a time, and only what is is. it is alright and it can not be in another way. there is nothing to achieve or avoid, just is, and never again. only looking! :) without start or endthere
there are memories of trying and thinking of being in control, but those events too are connected to everything, inside life. could never have been in any other way. they are part of the truth because they are part of this, what is.
6) thank you Jorge for this conversation. wanting it to continue. feeling! hello and goodbye :)

Love!
Toma

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Jorge786
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Ecuador

Re: confusion. someone willing to guide?

Postby Jorge786 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:31 pm

Thank you Toma!

Let me to show this to others guides, maybe they have questions to clarify your answers for them

i'll be back asap
Jorge
Tu no eres lo que piensas!
you are not what you think!


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