It is obvious from your questions and examples that the experience for you is different than "my" experience. While a lot of people talk, explain and some even try to teach or guide others to reality, their experience is only intellectual. What I mean is that for some, once the illusion is seen for what it is, LIFE and the way it is experienced does change, for others, as you mentioned, stays the same and only the sensation of seeking is eliminated.Great question.
Obviously it is unanswerable. This could be a huge con? A mind game? Perhaps there is no difference between an intellectual understanding of this mind trick and a visceral one? Science AND non-duality? Same same different?Perhaps the visceral experience of being the impersonal is simply a well aimed stab at manifesting a dissociative identity disorder? You clicked? We control you now? All your minds are belong to us? Maybe the avatars here all have prominent symptoms of various disorders? Anxiety? Bipolar? Depression? OCD? Schizophrenia? Worse still, perhaps we are all on drugs? How would you know? Don't eat the food!
Have they seen through the illusion? No idea?
Have I? No idea ;/) But the outcome here is of being at peace with the world. The outcome here is of noticing there is no longer a desperate need to answer the unanswerable question, or to obtain anything. Life just is the way it is. Whatever is happening now has equal validity as experience to anything else which might be happening. Nothing has changed on the outside. Nothing has changed for the human in this seat. Pain is experienced as unpleasant. Maybe unpleasant is experienced as "oh that's interesting" rather than "oh God look what is happening to me" but that's about it. That would be "my" take on this whole process - all THIS talk for NOTHING - it's REALLY BORING "being enlightened" ;/)
So for Helio:
All that needs to happen here is a demonstration of the experience of seeing through self.
The "Avatars" say they haven't seen a clear enough explanation yet.
Let's make it into a really simple science (not a truth but use this as a metaphor)I'd like to see is two or three simply written sentences explaining his current experience, free from scientific theories or spiritual titbits he's picked up along the way, that point to a realisation of no self.
There are NO people here - just cause/effect mechanisms running inside human bodies.
These human beings engaged in a language pattern which caused the mechanism to recognise something.
These human beings now operate FROM a new context (way of being).
This way of being has a unique experiential quality.
There has to be a "pattern match" - human beings do this thing called "mirroring" and the actions you take need to be consistent with this pattern.
If it was "playing football" and you were doing "hockey" then it wouldn't look right.
Of course it is entirely possible that some of the FaceBook members kicked the ball a couple of times then went back to hitting it with a stick?
But I don't know them! And even of the handful of them who were here at the start, none are convinced yet.
Have another stab at this question please and let's see where we end up after that.
The real question is however, are you happy with this process? Are we at the end? Are you complete? And if you are... Do you really need access to this and other groups?I'd like to see is two or three simply written sentences explaining his current experience, free from scientific theories or spiritual titbits he's picked up along the way, that point to a realisation of no self.
Now the "avatars" and you, want "me" to convince "you" that "I" have realized the no self. It is all too funny, but all that can be said is the daily experience, and wether this convinces "you" or the "avatars" is irrelevant, but perhaps it will serve "all of you" as an example of what LIFE would be once "you" actually have realization shift.
LIFE is simple. Things happen and everything is accepted without resistance. Previous preferences, opinions, doubts and fears are not present. Consequently, all judgements and prejudices of good and bad no longer exist; LIFE just is. The need for control has vanished along with worries of the past. Anxiety of the future seldom come, and quickly go like a light breeze. Attachments to anything are none existant. Trust in LIFE is felt at every instant, while being present to each moment. The "feelings" of peace, happiness, bliss, and unconditional love are felt always. Everything is experienced as "sacred," including the things previously thought of as evil or bad. Identity thoughts are a thing of the past. This reality is always present and experienced.
It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less...
