Requesting a guide

[Amanda44]

Just to clarify the jumping off a cliff thing. It IS about letting go of control. I admit I'm a control freak. I like having things be just so. And the idea of letting go of my self is to a large extent about letting go into a sense of just not knowing what any of this is all about. For a control freak, that's like jumping off a cliff. But I've had that experience before, in a previous awakening experience. It was more like FALLING off a cliff. No effort involved. I would welcome going there again, but I don't know how. It's not a matter of effort. I just don't know how to go about falling!

[Mad biker]

Great honesty here!

But I've had that experience before, in a previous awakening experience. It was more like FALLING off a cliff. No effort involved. I would welcome going there again, but I don't know how. It's not a matter of effort. I just don't know how to go about falling!

However you actually DID DO it. You actually did LET go. It was an action that you, in fact, ENGAGED in! You actually engaged in the letting go of effort! THAT was how you did it!
Trying does not come into it here. 'Trying', has got the notion of possible failure built into the word. Nobody 'TRIES' to open the freezer door, we just fucking open it for Christ's sake! Thought or effort does not come into it, we just let go into awareness...
Return to my previous two posts before that one. Return to those in a spirit of mindful breathing as you read them. Why not recite the Heart Sutra before re reading those two posts again?

[Amanda44]

I realize I'm arguing over semantics here, but just to clarify, no I didn't DO it. It just happened to me. I have no idea how it happened. It just did. And therefore I have no idea how to repeat it. That's why I say I don't know how to do it. It's not a question of effort, it's that I don't know what conditions need to be in place for it to take place. And please don't repeat the instruction to just relax and let go again.

[Mad biker]

Can you find anything in experience that you are in control of?

[Amanda44]

No I can't.

[Mad biker]

Nice!
OK, just softening into that with a sense of opening and sensitivity, moving away from head and verbal, being in your body...
It's 11.45pm here. Digest those posts, see you at this monitor in the morning.

[Mad biker]

Do you know how anythng happens?

Is there a you, an agent serparate from conditioned coproduction, that somehow operates outside of, and independently of, conditioned coproduction?

[Amanda44]

Sometimes insomnia can be a good thing. Last night I was lying awake in bed, and since there was nothing I could do I paid attention to sounds in the room. And as clear as day (ha ha, even though it was the middle of the night) I saw that there really was no me in the middle of it all. Initially it took some effort to sustain that perspective -- it was too easy to fall back into my habitual pattern of thinking there is a self there. (I realized that's what it must be like for someone just beginning to 'get' mindfulness, and how much effort it takes then to stay present. It was that kind of effort I was making.)

But as I was staying with my new perspective, it was completely obvious. There is was.

This morning when I woke up from my inadequate sleep, I checked to see if I was still seeing things the same way. It didn't seem as clearly obviously there, but yes, it's there. My old selfing habits are still lurking just under the surface, and if I'm not mindful they will jump back in. It feels like a little fledgling habit, but it's taken hold.

So is this it? I had the impression that it's supposed to happen sort of like a sudden breakthrough, which it wasn't for me. It was more like a steady drip-drip-drip of dye in a bowl of clear water. Over time it gradually got colored enough that I could say it's no longer clear water. And as of this morning, it's still right on the edge. But I have a foothold that feels like it'll stay (to mix metaphors here).

I'm about to head out for a doctor's appointment, then have a client appointment right after that. I have to go. I'll be driving a fair bit to get there, so it'll be a good opportunity to keep watching how it is. I'll report back later today.

[Mad biker]

Looks good!

"It's not that things change, thngs ARE change!" (Sangharakshita)

"

[Amanda44]

Back for another check-in. Yes, the feeling of there being no self there persists.

As I was driving to my appointment, I felt compelled to drive cautiously because it was an odd feeling to realize that "I" wasn't the one driving the car. Feelings of vulnerability were coming up, not knowing for sure whether this so-called ecosystem of this body-mind could take care of things. But obviously it always has and did once again today. All is well.

during my appointments, I was more absorbed in the conversations, so I was off in a different space, back in my ego. But now that I'm here waiting for my eggs to boil so I can make lunch, and am typing this to you, I can once again focus on an awareness that there really isn't a "me" here. It's sort of Twilight Zone-like. I still do need to make an effort to notice this (as I described in my post this morning), but it's there when I make that effort to pay attention to it.

So is this it? I'm not entirely sure.

[Mad biker]

Like I said before, not everyone has a BIG DEAL FIREWORKS experience. For some it is just a slow gentle realisation that gradually emerges and it sounds as though that is what has happened for you and that you have 'got it'.

I recognise what you are saying about driving (can this monkey really just DO this, with out any help from me?!) and moving back into normal ego behaviour to engage normally with your client at work.

Also do not be to concerned about 'selfing' arising from time to time post gate. That is quite normal too. It is just habit. But do we really believe it or take it seriously? It is clear that you don't.

I shall now send you the final six confirmation questions. Sometimes people string these out thinking they won't have a guide anymore once these are answered, but this is not 'Goodbye' from me. I remain available to you always!

[Mad biker]

Now take a look at those final questions. These should help confirm whether the seeing-knowing is steady, and further questions may (or may not) arise from your responses to these.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail from your own experience what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Amanda44]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

NO to ALL those!

2) Explain in detail from your own experience what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works. Describe it fully as you see it now.

My confusion arose from not being able to differentiate between vijnana and a self. After all, whenever consciousness is there, I am aware of the presence of all my skandhas, and so it's easy to think that I always exist. I hadn't really paid much attention before to when I'm NOT aware. It's an easy trap to fall into.

What I understand now is that each of my physical actions, thoughts, emotions, everything, arises as a result of some other condition being present. Even something like an inspiration (a thought) gets triggered by some previous event, or maybe a seed of something that had been planted in my consciousness previously. I loved Bodhipaksa's analogy of an ecosystem from his book Living as a River. That really helped crystalize things for me. There doesn't need to be a central conductor when there's a system of interdependent parts, which is what my "self" actually is.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

As I said in my previous post, there's a bit that feels like I'm in a Twilight Zone. Like "who's driving the bus?" Beyond that, it's still hard for me to say what's different. I'm still assimilating it. I guess I feel like my eyes have been opened, but other than that, I'm not sure that there's a whole lot that's different.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I think Bodhipaksa's chapter on Consciousness really helped me to understand how my experience of vijnana was actually a series of separate and unrelated moments of awareness. He also pointed out how vijnana ISN'T always there, like when we're asleep. And where is the self then? 'Hmmm...

Then, last night as I lay awake in bed, my mind was really still, the night was really still. So I was able to focus 100% of my attention on my body and mind. That's when it really clicked in that the sound of the fan in my room was happening as the SAME EVENT as my hearing it. There was no separation between these two events. It was just sound happening. Even though I had been told in words many many times that's how it is, it finally sunk in at that moment.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

It seems more like my life follows a path of least resistance, but I don't actually "control" any of it. At any juncture, there are a bunch of conditions that present themselves, and some thought or action arises in this blob of skandhas that I think is me. It seems the arising thought or action is like a rock rolling down a hill. It's not predestined, but there are very strong leanings in certain directions. I am truly truly grateful to have encountered the dharma at a time and place when the teaching could land in the fertile soil of my being and take root. That's a newer set of conditions that are gaining momentum and moving in a direction that's different from my past conditions. And as evidence that I don't really control that -- well, my progress on the path goes only as quickly as conditions allow, and this being is able to take in. And it takes lots of twists and turns I don't always like! But it's still amazing and wonderful that it's happening. May it continue to grow and prosper!

6) Anything to add?

Not really, other than a huge THANK YOU to my guide.

[Amanda44]

I'm sure you've gone to bed by now, but I wanted to leave you one last message before I disappeared for a month. And that's to express my sincere gratitude for being my guide through this process!! Thank you, thank you, thank you! It must be tremendously satisfying to see people pass through "the gate."

So we made it, just under the wire. I leave tomorrow morning, 9am flight to San Francisco. I will savor the experience with my new set of eyes.

Much metta to you,
Tara