Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:22 am

Hi Kent,
Hmmm, I must be missing something essential here. I see the dynamic pointillism that I described as a unifying concept not a separating one as the points (for lack of better description) like a dynamic texture encompassing all of my view, where objects share this dynamic, moving texture, this commonality.
No your not missing anything. There is more then one way to look at something, I see what is being said now.
An aside: for the first time in two months I rode my bicycle to work today. One part of the route winds through an old cemetery that has a fairly steep winding road. Right before I reached the top, I saw a kind of pointed white shape against a hazy blue sky. It was intriguing to me, for an instant or two, not knowing what is was, the mind then speculated it was a cloud, then as I rode on, it was revealed to be Mt. Hood, something I had seen thousands of times before, but the not knowing made it a more special experience. It was almost disappointing for my mind to label it Mount Hood.
It amazes me how perception is effected by so many things. Try this, take a picture and look at it upside down. It shakes loose a few things. Did you ever do the mirror exercise ? I would be interested in hearing what happened. Was there ever a time when trying to get a sharp image of someone else in the mind that was well known to you didn't work?

Is there a self anywhere in or out? :-)

Regards, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:21 am

Hi Metta,

I briefly tried the looking in the mirror exercise. Maybe I was resisting it without even knowing. So this time looking in the mirror, not focusing on judging, and what I got was a feeling of that the face seemed almost far away. Difficult to put an "I" there. Me thinks it was the first time seeing my face in a mirror and the feeling like it was kind of, sort of far away, who is this? Is that me? Who is me? What is self? Where do these feelings come from?

Last night one of my favorite teachers was in town: Jeannie Zandi. I went to her Satsang, coming out feeling quite different. Just being with what is, somehow easier to do when she is around,almost difficult to not do.

I haven't watched the Gangaji video link you sent. I plan to by tomorrow.

Love,

-Kent

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:30 am

Hello Kent,

The video was just soothing is all, not really meant to be informational. Sounds like a nice time, you must live in one of the more suburban areas I guess.

Anyway, do you think you are ready for the final questions? Are there any more areas that seems to not have opened up? Let me know.




Warm Regards, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:41 am

Hi Metta,

I have been thinking about your question pretty much all day and I did come up with one issue. As I had briefly told you, my wife and I had a legal battle with a homeowners association where we felt we were repeatedly lied to, dealt with totally unreasonable people, betrayal from former friends (so they would fit in), and a whole lot of ignorance. I still have some anger arising up from this even though it is past (It ended late last sumer). So there is resistance to what was, what is. And the anger has to be some kind of defending the I. I know that this is not a psychotherapy session but perhaps on this resistance, the defending of the I here, it would be wonderful for me to have a different perspective on all of it.

Love,

-Kent
P.S. I went to a mediation tonight and the guy next to me had all kinds of body noises, opening his water bottle constantly and loud breaths. I tried to take it all in but it was very challenging : )

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:23 am

Hi Kent,
I still have some anger arising up from this even though it is past (It ended late last summer). So there is resistance to what was, what is. And the anger has to be some kind of defending the I. I know that this is not a psychotherapy session but perhaps on this resistance, the defending of the I here, it would be wonderful for me to have a different perspective on all of it.

There are a couple of things here. From a non-dual point of view it is not the problem of property issues it is what the thoughts say about it. Thoughts arising that this shouldn't be happening to me, ( There is No you) Questions are, why shouldn't it? and where is the me it is happening to? My friends shouldn't behave that way, they should do this. * why shouldn't they ? *
Anger is always a secondary emotion that gives some power back and makes for more secure feelings like " I am right ,they are wrong." But who is it that is right or wrong, it is just happening and awareness is there to get the story so to speak. Another aspect is what emotion anger is secondary too, and that is either fear or hurt. You mentioned betrayal, that is hurtful, anger makes it less so. Anger, resistance , denial, coping mechanisms that the mind uses to defend itself Try to see that it is impersonal, it could have happened to anyone, life just keeps living. Can those friends really control what they do? Are they there? Examine that a bit. Look deeper. If there is no doer and there is only awareness in the flow of energy.
Like water changing to rain, then steam, then ice, then mist, then clouds, but it is all the same energy moving.
P.S. I went to a mediation tonight and the guy next to me had all kinds of body noises, opening his water bottle constantly and loud breaths. I tried to take it all in but it was very challenging : )
Yes, but your still smiling. One thing that comes to mind is an old friend of mine. I would say something like, " I just can't stand it!" He would say, " Of course you can stand it, you did stand it and you will keep standing it." lol

Your meditation cohort must not have been in too good a shape and your meditation perhaps needed the challenge.

Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:08 am

Hi Metta,

I like what you say and want to sit with it one more day.
Thanks so much, you are very kind.

-Kent

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:57 am

Hi Kent, Thats fine. :-)
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:02 pm

Hi Metta,

Thanks so much for allowing us to look at this. It has been one of the "bigger deals" in my life, it is very kind of you to do so.
There are a couple of things here. From a non-dual point of view it is not the problem of property issues it is what the thoughts say about it. Thoughts arising that this shouldn't be happening to me, ( There is No you) Questions are, why shouldn't it? and where is the me it is happening to?
But someone had to attend to the dealings (dealing with the attorneys, making decisions) didn't they? I guess one could say this human attended to these issues but not this fictional character labeled Kent. I am trying to get "there" (for a lack of better term).
My friends shouldn't behave that way, they should do this. * why shouldn't they ? *
Because my definition of a friend is someone who at least listens to you, does not say one thing and then do another and totally backstabs you, then tell you "it happened in a void". Of course the you I refer to is that troublesome "I" we have been working to see through so there is conflict within me about this.
Anger is always a secondary emotion that gives some power back and makes for more secure feelings like " I am right ,they are wrong." But who is it that is right or wrong, it is just happening and awareness is there to get the story so to speak. Another aspect is what emotion anger is secondary too, and that is either fear or hurt. You mentioned betrayal, that is hurtful, anger makes it less so. Anger, resistance , denial, coping mechanisms that the mind uses to defend itself [/quote]
This is very insightful, it seems very true.
Try to see that it is impersonal; it could have happened to anyone, life just keeps living
I can get there but it is not my habit to start from this point of view but maybe it is about time to do so.
Can those friends really control what they do?
This strikes a chord with me. There seems a lot of conditioning there if that is what you mean. In their case, conditioning to fit in what my wife and I view as a very insular community not driven by truth or facts and not particularly interested in them either. They have even admitted this.
Are they there?
Well it sure seems like they are there. One of them hides from us when we come up to our cabin and the other keeps trying to be our friend, ignoring what happened and ignoring my wife has said that we are not interested in their friendship. I guess I could look at it like the effects of conditioning happened. The effects of Conditioning flowing through a form of persons happened. In other words, there was conditioning and a story happening in awareness through their persons and in their conditioning they decided to go a certain way in this play but it was the only way they could go (given their conditioning) so the deciding really never took place with them.

Thanks again,

Love,

-Kent

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:14 am

Hi Kent,
But someone had to attend to the dealings (dealing with the attorneys, making decisions) didn't they? I guess one could say this human attended to these issues but not this fictional character labeled Kent. I am trying to get "there" (for a lack of better term).
Yes, but isn't that just part of the story of Kent. In pure awareness is there a Kent ? or a self ? The past is dead, when looked at it is purely subjective. That's why when a policeman questions witnesses's at the scene of a crime, even if they all saw the same thing it will be different. One man will say he had a blue wool hat and another women will say he had a soft red hat, he was 6 foot tall. Etc. The minute something happens it dies and is continually reborn to NOW. The future is just a projection or speculation based on what has already happened. Not real is it? Exercise: Try to remember someone's face you haven't seen in awhile. How clear can it get to in your mind?
Because my definition of a friend is someone who at least listens to you, does not say one thing and then do another and totally backstabs you, then tell you "it happened in a void". Of course the you I refer to is that troublesome "I" we have been working to see through so there is conflict within me about this.
The friends that are spoken of, don't have a self either. They are not doers, they don't make decisions do they? They act on conditioned response , biological instinct. Awareness is just life living itself isn't it? Events seemingly flow and awareness is there. Life just keeps on living itself through all things.

Just a question for exploration, looking around is there an awareness of anything mirrored of thoughts in the surroundings? If it is true that there is only awareness, a playing out of energy what is logically occurring? No need to answer that one, it is just for contemplation.
In other words, there was conditioning and a story happening in awareness through their persons and in their conditioning they decided to go a certain way in this play but it was the only way they could go (given their conditioning) so the deciding really never took place with them.
There was no " I " to decide, think about the video for a sec. The decision was already made before the man was even aware of it. It took so many seconds for the man to even know a decision had been made. Who or what made it ? Yes, just stories happening that our minds make up on past experiences and memory and events in the now, but it is all a story.

One example I find interesting. Of how the mind works. a man walking in the woods was bitten by a poison snake, he thought it was just a twig because he didn't see the snake, so he didn't have much pain, then he collapsed. He made it to the hospital and survived. He was walking in the woods with friends again and a twig brushed the same spot, he was suddenly thrown down with horrible pain in that leg. But nothing had really happened. Similar to phantom leg pain. Pure conditioning and it is made stronger by trauma, fear of some kind, or strong emotions.


So the million dollar question, is there a self? Okay, sorry, no million dollars, but..... Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:39 pm

Hi Metta,
So the million dollar question, is there a self? Okay, sorry, no million dollars, but..... Love, Metta

There is a human or person, a body, a mind, a personality and also there is awareness. The self you most likely refer to (the small self), has not been found although this one has looked. The person acts, reacts and has a mind but the solidity of an I is not there. The acting and reacting it seems happens largely from conditioning and instinct. In the context of an ever changing now as the only real time, the self is a made up memory or a projection for a non-existent future. The labeling is extensive and I don’t believe one can be engulfed in or with the now if this made up self is involved.

That said, this one still gets caught up in the story but perhaps that is naturally lessoning.

Love,

-Kent

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:07 pm

Hi Kent,

Knowing there is no self, then is there a readiness for the final questions. Upon completion with me, you will be invited to an aftercare group. You may have my link if you like if there are further questions, etc., but the group is very good for further exploration and deepening.
If you feel you are not ready and have specific issues to discuss or questions, let me know. Otherwise there are 6 questions .

Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:03 pm

Hi Metta,

While it seems like I still have some issues (i.e. lingering anger over our land use legal issue), it has been softened somewhat. It seems to stay on topic, I have run out of questions. Rather, the questions are now at least in this moment, feel like they are stalling rather than serving, like the momentum has run out of asking. So essentially asking the same questions in a different form feels tiring.

Thanks so much,

-Kent

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:10 am

Hi Kent,

The anger is a defense mechanism of the mind to not let go of self, don't you think? Many times memories or indignities serve to keep a trap up. What purpose does the anger serve, really look at that ? Does it keep a sense of self going, this character called Kent in the story who was misjudged, betrayed, etc, etc

Is there a self or a refusal to let go? Tiredness is a very common symptom in resistance of the mind to there being no self. Recap: The personality is a fabrication made up of direct experience and dead memories. The only thing that can be experienced is Now, take a walk, notice everything, can time travel be accomplished , Nope. Only what is occurring in this instance. Being right and being put upon or misjudged can be addicting. The drama keeps a sense of self going. that in no way is disrespectful of the pain that was felt or is felt at the loss of friends and betrayal.

It was life living itself and awareness noting the story of Kent. Can it be seen that it is a story that is being held onto and not who you are? That the truth is much more beautiful.

Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Metta777
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am
Location: Northeast USA
Contact:

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:43 pm

Hi Kent,

I can point towards the experience , but it can't be forced. The fabricated personality of the mind comes from conditioning, labels, teaching and the environment. sometimes the burden of who we think we are becomes so heavy and even painful. But there has to be a willingness to let that self go, all the Masters point in the same direction. Our personality is just like an old coat we wear, when we can drop it and be free from suffering. some people prefer to keep their suffering because they have become identified with it. There are so many things we can identify with, sometimes it is the search. The tiredness perhaps means you are ready to put it down.

Can you see that the small self is not you, that awareness does not need this identity to be there. suffering is not needed. Clearly I think there is an awareness that an identity is not needed for awareness, birds are aware, they have no self. The ego self will continue to suffer unless dropped, it will feel hurt, betrayed, angry, sad, all the pain that life sometimes gives us. Look!!!! See that the suffering is not needed any longer. The real is there, the illusion of who you are can be seen.

Who is thinking the thoughts? Where do they come from? they are decided before this person you think you are is even aware of them. There is no doer is there??? This is not about morality or responsibility ,it is about behind the conditioning and reaching deep into your gut you can see the truth. We can work as long as it takes, it is clear now that you have not seen. If you had suffering drops away. Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

User avatar
Look4light
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

Re: Looking to Start with Meta777 as my Guide

Postby Look4light » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:20 pm

Thanks Metta
I at the cabin today I have read both your posts. A lot there. I will continue to absorb & give you a fuller reply tomorrow

Love,
Kent


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 212 guests