Seeking with trepidation

[Damon Kamda]

How does it feel to see this?

[ali79]

How does it feel to see this?

Everything feels different and still everything is the same. Like someone's wearing dirty spectacles and then cleans them and wears them back. I am more aware in the present moment. There is no continuous struggle to do this, do that and don't do this, don't do that. There is little resistance. I feel resigned... But this being in the present moment lapses, especially when I am interacting with others. It is like having a blackout. I have to remember to be in the present. And it feels awkward when I am listening to someone and the same time am in the present moment.

I am also more aware of my thoughts. I saw a big, shiny black car and just after the visual the thought popped that said awesome car and I realized that the mind had labeled it thus. I was talking to someone yesterday and got very sleepy and yawned. A thought came, "I" am really sleepy and this was followed by the realization: it is the body that is sleepy, there is no "you", remember?

[Damon Kamda]

But this being in the present moment lapses, especially when I am interacting with others. It is like having a blackout. I have to remember to be in the present. And it feels awkward when I am listening to someone and the same time am in the present moment.

What is the actual difference between "being in the present moment" and "not being in the present moment"?

[ali79]

What is the actual difference between "being in the present moment" and "not being in the present moment"?

Thank you for your questions, Damon. We are covering new ground (for me) with every one of these.

Being in the present moment is when awareness is aware of itself. There are no thoughts, or if there are, they are observed. There is no identification with thoughts/mind, so no track is lost.

So, when is awareness not aware of itself? When it identifies with the mind? Or looks from the perspective of the mind? This seems to be happening more often in the particular case of interaction with others. Since this interaction has to be done using language and language is in the domain of the mind, is it possible that awareness is switching into the mind and losing track of itself?

[Damon Kamda]

Being in the present moment is when awareness is aware of itself. There are no thoughts, or if there are, they are observed. There is no identification with thoughts/mind, so no track is lost.

So, when is awareness not aware of itself? When it identifies with the mind? Or looks from the perspective of the mind? This seems to be happening more often in the particular case of interaction with others. Since this interaction has to be done using language and language is in the domain of the mind, is it possible that awareness is switching into the mind and losing track of itself?

Beep beep ;-)

Right now, where is awareness? What is it? Is there such a thing as awareness?

[ali79]

Beep beep ;-)

I was afraid of that :) but I was coming from direct experience as much as possible so went ahead with it.

Right now, where is awareness? What is it? Is there such a thing as awareness?

[/quote]
I am awareness. Awareness just is.

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Ali, had a good weekend? How is everything going? What about that paradigm shift- still there or did you slip back? ;-)

Let's continue...

I was coming from direct experience as much as possible so went ahead with it

Are you sure? Look again at the direct obviousness of what is happening right now.

I am awareness. Awareness just is.

What "I" is awareness?
What is awareness?
In what way is it?

Describe it in detail- what's going on here?
How does awareness show up in experience?
In what wat is that awareness you?

Where is the dividing line between awareness and non-awareness, or the things that awareness is aware of?

[ali79]

Hi Ali, had a good weekend? How is everything going? What about that paradigm shift- still there or did you slip back? ;-)

Yes thank you. I took your advice and went for a test drive over the weekend. I have calmed down a lot after that initial trauma :). The skeptic says that slipping back is a possibility. There are occasional flashes of negative emotions but they are recognized and let go off. Where previously they would just take control. There have also been major behavioral changes. Let's see how long lasting they are. I think they may serve as a barometer for my slipping back. Would you agree? For example, all of my addictions are simply gone without much effort. This in itself is amazing because I have tried so much in the past. For example, I was addicted to pron (disclosing this one, even anonymously wasn't even a possibility before), entertainment, coffee and overeating (to mention a few). These were real addictions not something indulged in occasionally. Similarly, It was impossible for me to sit still for more than ten minutes. Ten minutes was the MAX limit for my very occasional meditation attempts. Now, I can sit still for hours. Something I tried over the weekend.

I feel so much gratitude and love for you, the people that created these forums and the guy that put that link over there at wikipedia :). It boggles the mind to think how can such a debt ever be repaid...

What "I" is awareness?

There is no "I", awareness is independent of "I". Yet I say, I am it. But this I of I am is not the same "I" as before.

What is awareness?
In what way is it?

I have no way to describe it. There is no way for it to be, it just is.

Describe it in detail- what's going on here?

I am out of my depth here, that's what's going on. I am unable to describe it, that's what's going on here isn't it?

How does awareness show up in experience?

It does not show up in experience. It is what experiences. It is experience. (This last line, though I felt compelled to write it down, I am not sure if I really "See" it.)

In what way is that awareness you?

I don't know.

Where is the dividing line between awareness and non-awareness, or the things that awareness is aware of?

When I "Look" I don't find any. But it feels wrong. How can there be no dividing line between awareness and non-awareness? I feel another paradigm shift coming over, all over again but it's just not there yet.

[Damon Kamda]

Yes thank you. I took your advice and went for a test drive over the weekend. I have calmed down a lot after that initial trauma :).

:-) Yes, this can be quite a shock to the system. I know this firsthand...

The skeptic says that slipping back is a possibility.

What would "slipping back" consist in, exactly? Was anything gained that can be lost again? Has anything been added?

There have also been major behavioral changes. Let's see how long lasting they are. I think they may serve as a barometer for my slipping back. Would you agree?

No, I would not agree.
At all.

It's quite interesting that these habits just dropped off, but in itself that has NOTHING to do with seeing through the illusion of separation. Something tells me it's not being seen in its entirety yet.

I feel so much gratitude and love for you, the people that created these forums and the guy that put that link over there at wikipedia :). It boggles the mind to think how can such a debt ever be repaid...

Right back at you. No need to repay anything. This is given freely, with love...
Just keep looking and examing. We're not quite there yet.

There is no "I", awareness is independent of "I". Yet I say, I am it. But this I of I am is not the same "I" as before.

This is too vague. Be more clear. If you cannot express it clearly, you shouldn't express it at all, especially in this context. Be precise.

I am unable to describe it, that's what's going on here isn't it?

Hahahaha, yes, that is true. In a way.
Yet, it was a very specific question, inviting you to look at a very specific absence in experience.

It does not show up in experience. It is what experiences. It is experience. (This last line, though I felt compelled to write it down, I am not sure if I really "See" it.)

Then look closer!!!

When I "Look" I don't find any. But it feels wrong. How can there be no dividing line between awareness and non-awareness? I feel another paradigm shift coming over, all over again but it's just not there yet.

But it feels wrong.

Exactly- because this is the fundamental mistake- the hidden assumption. That there should be a dividing line between seer and seen. Subject and object. Awareness and the world.

This is what needs to be examined. Deeply. Experientially.
Take any experience as an entrance point.

In hearing a sound, is there a hear-er, hearing and the heard?
In seeing a sigh, is there a see-er, seeing and the seen?

This deep assumption of experience as

a subject-verbing-an object

does that have any basis in direct experience?

Yes!

[ali79]

Hi!

Here's a start to the week :-\, Sleepless night 1, Ali 0.

What would "slipping back" consist in, exactly? Was anything gained that can be lost again? Has anything been added?

It was meant in terms of slipping back with previous behaviors/habits with which you disagree. Then again, what's freedom if you still act as a slave?

Yesterday, I tried with sight on my way back from office. Today, I tried with seeing and hearing together. Then added walking, thinking and breathing and had the same results.

Seeing is a function. No one is controlling it and it is being applied to no-one/nothing. It is just happening. It just is.

Awareness is a function as well. It is just happening by itself. Therefore, I am happening.

So, how does it feel like? (You are rubbing off on me ;))
It is indescribable initially. However, "Looking", a word pops up. Empty... I feel emptiness. What sorcery is this?

[Damon Kamda]

Here's a start to the week :-\, Sleepless night 1, Ali 0.

I didn't sleep for a week initially.... sounds familiar.

What sorcery is this?

:-p it's reality recognizing itself, that's all...

It was meant in terms of slipping back with previous behaviors/habits with which you disagree. Then again, what's freedom if you still act as a slave?

Has there ever been anything other than absolute freedom?

Awareness is a function as well. It is just happening by itself. Therefore, I am happening.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. The "therefore" strikes me as odd. What is the I that is happening? Describe that I in detail. What is the I-ness of that I? What makes it a self?

[ali79]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. The "therefore" strikes me as odd. What is the I that is happening? Describe that I in detail. What is the I-ness of that I? What makes it a self?

You don't miss much do you :). It was supposed to be a longer argument where I was going to equate I and Awareness, but I messed it up.

There is no I, there is just experience.

[Damon Kamda]

Are you ready for the final "confirmation questions", Ali?

[ali79]

Yes please.

[Damon Kamda]

Allright! Here they are:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Don't be afraid to go into detail, but stick with direct experience. Thanks....!