Requesting Ilona as a guide

[Creativeheart]

Hi Nina,
Well my niblings live so much in the now - its all just fun and experiences, and newness and play... they have it right: not taking 'it' all too seriously. Plus they think I'm quite a cool aunty ; )
aunty-ing and nibling-ing : )

"No consciousness:no thoughts, no thoughts: no consciousness"

No - this isn't right because there can be consciousness of no thoughts, there can be consciousness of no chair
consciousness just is
thoughts just are and they are experienced by consciousness

body is a label but I don't know what its labelled by: thoughts or consciousness
Loosing it here... feeling confused.

Nothing is 'real' as in: nothing is actually solid and existing - but things and sensations and feelings are all being experienced by consciousness via the body
Thoughts are experienced by consciousness.... so I don't see that thoughts can label anything... they are just like floating clouds...arising and disappearing.
Trying too hard here...
Direct experience: Nothing is 'doing' the labelling... there is just labelling ha ha ha!
The body is - no-thing... just a label.
Thats all for now...
x

[Creativeheart]

Hi Nina,

Hoping you’re having a lovely weekend and enjoyed some sunshine.
Sitting out in nature today – taking in the water in the canal, the leaves and trees and seeing this body as another label.
Feeling frustration – as a perceived mistake that was made earlier in the day… realising that it’s a story – a thought arising, labelled, and linked to other thoughts that are a story within the story that is the life that this body is living…
Just feeling the frustration.. and noticing the labelling of thoughts as they arise … seeing people walk past .. labelling what is seen… labelling labelling … it’s an ongoing busy process.. that is just happening
Feeling like something is unravelling.
Seing the legs of this body… with sunshine shining on them… legs arising, sunshine arising.. labelling…
Finding it all quite hilarious.

Wondering could there be a ‘self somehwere else ..like aviewer behind a camera and its form is just not conceiveable with this mind and body configuration…
But that self would ne observd by another behind a camera and another and another .. ad infinitum… drawing this .. .. people behind cameras wathing people behind cameras to the edge of the universe… and then what?! … ha ha ha ..
But this is not about ‘figuring it out’
What is seen? No self … whatsoever… but enjoying seeing, being seen… enjoying being..

Dancing this evening … hearing music, moving this body…. Labelling… music playing and body dancing… the dancing and the music … one and the same… feeling of amazement and awe at how the music and the body and the dance are arising, all just happening all the one ‘thing’ but no thing. Amazing…
Good night. x

[Creativeheart]

Hi Nina,
Didn’t hear from you yesterday. Hope everything is ok.
Thought we agreed we’d both post at leaast once a day.

Continuing to try and maintain seeing that there is no ‘I’.

Feeling lots of frustration…
Who is feeling frustration?… that is my question for now.
Frustration unleashed…

Can’t see any ‘I’ feeling the frustation but thoughts keeps arising… thoughts that become stories… old stories about this life: all about what this ‘I’ is.. in detail…
All these thoughts feel like hooks… an almost constant barrage of thougths and stories about ‘me’.. about who ‘I am’: ‘I am’ frustrated.

Realised that there is a belief.. a story that if there is realisation of no ‘I that the frustration would disapear … that there would be freedom from these 'uncomfortable' feelings. But in seeing no ‘I’ there are still feelings arising … frustration arising… frustration arising in the mind and in the body.. lots of sensatation and thoughts .. lots of labelling and getting hooked on the stories that evolve … feels like this is a practice… learning to see the ‘I’. Do I just need to keep up this practice... is this the best way forward Nina?

Not sure where to go next with this.. still feeling lots of frustration.
Will stay with this….

[Creativeheart]

Hi Nina,
..can't let this down... not getting a lot of work done : )

Went to the Gateless Gatecrasher for more questions:

“Fear? Look up behind the fear. Bow to the amazing creation of consciousness—fear. Invite fear closer and peek behind it.”

So for ‘me’ with frustration – behind it is fear – fear of all sorts of things – stories.
Behind the fear are more thoughts and stories. Its amazing this frustration and this fear – such passion… such a beautiful expression of life… beauty in ‘the ugliness’ ..labels… but behind it all nothing.

“it’s all impersonal phenomena. We were just conditioned from early childhood to assign “I” to all that is happening—feelings, thoughts, body, etc.”

Yes I can see that…. Busy labelling… of every thought … and attaching it to other thougths to give stories more credibility… but credibility based on random arising thoughts.

Hmm but still I am feeling an ‘I’… that is feeling frustrated…
And Pain – taking it personally… I’m feling pain in my hip – long standing pain so it must be real. How can you take pain impersonally?
If there is no ‘I’ to live this life then there is no ‘I’ to take anything personally there is just pain arising …
This feels difficult…
This is my sticking point: trying to see that pain and emotion are not personal.
There is no I feeling pain and emotion.
They are just arising.
I dip in and out of seeing this.

‘There is no ‘I’ in a newly born baby…

yes just pure conscousness… stunning to witness. There never was and never will be an ‘I’

Is anybody living life?

Living is arising in consciousness.. but there is no one behind it … no one behind it all… its all just happening…

“Do you exist?”

From what I’ve been writing…. No..
But still I’m struggling with this…
‘I’ doesn’t exist… but the sensations and emotions exist…
It feels like its necessary to have something to cling onto.
But there is nothing to cling to.
I don't exist...

Tell me what can be known 100% right now. Look at thoughts and No¬tice: thoughts are real, the content isn’t.”

My thougths make all of this so complicated – I long for this to be simpler.
I’ve always been so willing to work hard, try harder, figure it out, make it work… keep on trying and try ing
What do I know 100% right now… I know nothing.. there is no I.
What can be taken as fact .. there is thought arising and there is sensation.. happening… there is labelling and there is storying.. and there is a BIG story that ‘I am real’ but I am not.

I’ve spent this life believing in lies.. beliving in layers of stories… being influenced by these stories .. being hurt by these stories..
The only times when there are no stories are when 'I am' dancing and when 'I am' drawing…. When there is no I ‘doing’ the dancing or the drawing… Then there is freedom.

Sometimes I am getting that there is no me and never has been
And then I find myself hooked on the feeling and sensations thoughts and sensations: taking them personally… lots of old lies…

… I want to be FREE form this crap!

Impersonal..

people starving all over the world… starvation is just happening… rain forests being destroyed .. deforestation happening, climates changing... sadness arising… such beautiy in this sadness… compassion… LOVE
No reasons for life … just life unfolding … the universe looking back on itself … unfolding in every single possible way… over and over.
Whether our planet lives or dies … is irrelevant…
Why go on liviing .if its all impersonal and irrelevant?

but I’m not living!!! YES ‘I'm’ not living …
Living is just happening… life is just happening… there really is 'nothing' personal…
There is just living like drawing and dancing … witnessing how beautiful it all is… no need to be attached to the stories.... without the attachment to the stories and the thoughts and the 'I' .. there is just freedom.
x

[Nina]

[quote]My thougths make all of this so complicated – I long for this to be simpler.
I’ve always been so willing to work hard, try harder, figure it out, make it work… keep on trying and try ing
What do I know 100% right now… I know nothing.. there is no I. Loved your post i know it has been very emotional for you.I feel that it may be good for you to slow down a little.
You are on the right path and it is clear you will find your gate and go through it. My job is to support your journey.
I would like you to take a walk and fined a calm place focus on what you find interesting.
This is about looking and finding out what thoughts just come to you with out any pressure.


What can be taken as fact .. there is thought arising and there is sensation.. happening… there is labelling and there is storying.. and there is a BIG story that ‘I am real’ but I am not. Realised that there is a belief.. a story that if there is realisation of no ‘I that the frustration would disappear … that there would be freedom from these 'uncomfortable' feelings. But in seeing no ‘I’ there are still feelings arising … frustration arising… frustration arising in the mind and in the body.. lots of sensation and thoughts .. lots of labelling and getting hooked on the stories that evolve … feels like this is a practice… learning to see the ‘I’. Do I just need to keep up this practice...
Frustration, Fear are normal parts of finding your path to the gate. If you find you have fears just welcome the fear and look behind it along side is it real ?
Is it part of your story ? Try this when you are feeling good when you are fresh and have slept well.

Looking forward to your next post don't feel that you have to rush because you are making very good progress.
If you have any issues or concerns i am hear to support you on your quest.

Love and light

Nina

[Creativeheart]

Thank you Nina,

“I would like you to take a walk and fined a calm place focus on what you find interesting.
This is about looking and finding out what thoughts just come to you with out any pressure.”

I went to the local park and sat watching a swan family: a mother and father and 9 fluffy grey cygnets.
My thoughts: how easy life is. The swans are relaxed and unhurried, unburdened by anything… just living. They weren’t caught up by any worries, stories or concepts they just living. They are free.
Looking at trees and flowers they just live with ease … just living , not pushing, not controlling, no controller… no 'I'

“Frustration, Fear are normal parts of finding your path to the gate. If you find you have fears just welcome the fear and look behind it.. is it real ?
Is it part of your story? “

The frustration feels real, the fear feels real…they feel superglued to ‘I’.
I get intellectually that there is no ‘I’ … but am not seeing it...

yes the fear and frustration are part of my story....but again that is intellectual.

x

[Nina]

The frustration feels real, the fear feels real…they feel superglued to ‘I’.
I get intellectually that there is no ‘I’ … but am not seeing it.

..

I think you are making great progress seeing that you have a block is great because before you felt the need to rush now you are looking in the right place within.
This is your journey and you have all the time you need to work through the process one step at a time

"What are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?"

lets look how they have changed and work through this with your direct experience I am sure you will find that things start to drop into place.
Love and Light

Nina

[Creativeheart]

"What are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?"

Liberation feels like living with less sticky attachment to thoughts – this feels lighter, more spacious, easier.
This won’t change me (Me = I am = the seer = portal of consciousness in bodily form = the nothing thing), there are no parts of me to be changed, there is only awareness of this body, the thoughts that emerge and life that is living; unfolding all around, effortlessly.

[Nina]

”

Liberation feels like living with less sticky attachment to thoughts – this feels lighter, more spacious, easier.
This won’t change me (Me = I am = the seer = portal of consciousness in bodily form = the nothing thing), there are no parts of me to be changed, there is only awareness of this body, the thoughts that emerge and life that is living; unfolding all around, effortlessly
How would it feel to take the wording<I> and Seer out of the process and just observe from direct experience the Knowledge and past understanding can cloud what is real.
Then take the exercise below and have some fun with it.

.“Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or
black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either
way. Describe how choosing happens.

Love and Light Nina.

[Creativeheart]

just observe from direct experience....
“Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

‘Choosing’ between two pens: initially lots of garbled thoughts about preference but then that still point with no decision and then one of them is chosen…

Walking along in the park choosing to walk between pebbles… and feeling giddy with the surprise of the choosing just happening.. like a child watching a magic trick.

Choosing in these experiences just ...happens.

Thank you Nina for that exercise.
x

[Nina]

Thank you for your last most making real progress lets continue

"are YOU the thinker of thoughts?
can YOU think and choose a thought?"

From your own experience look at the above questions

Love and Light

Nina

[Creativeheart]

Thank you Nina for your encouragement, its hugely appreciated. : )

"are YOU the thinker of thoughts?

Sitting watching: Thoughts just appear.. a continuous stream of random images, suggestions and stories..
Thinking and thought appear as the same thing... no discernible difference. The thought appears and there is thinking ...as the same time.
'I' am not thinking thoughts.... they just pop up out of nowhere.

can YOU think and choose a thought?"

Made a concerted effort to do this... decided to come up with a random thought.... elephant! But 'I' didn't choose it ... it just appeared. Kept trying this - much like trying to choose between a red and a blue pen the desire to do it had little to do with what was chosen.

Tried to see if 'I' could control thoughts: focusing on breathing, on body sensations, feeling calmer and YES thoughts seem calmer this feels like I can control thoughts in some way.
...but the thought to calm thoughts wasn't 'mine' to begin with.. that just appeared.

So I can't make a thought just appear...

Thank you
x

[Nina]

'I' am not thinking thoughts.... they just pop up out of nowhere.
Really loved your last post. You have made great progress and i sense there has been a shift with in you,
Now lets go on to the next question. Try to put down from your experience your experience.


“are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self

Love and light
Nina

[Creativeheart]

Hi Nina,

“are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self”

Sitting with this – the statement “I never existed” comes up. doubt? There is some physical discomfort. So.. sitting with this … there is a feeling of clinging to this ‘I’. There is awareness.. of existence.. the clingyness falls away and a sense of relief, no, ‘I’ never existed … but there is awareness of existence.. of ‘reality.

Sitting with the question again: feelings of aggitation with neighbours making noise – feeling tired – feeling aggitated- A little doubt here about these sticky emotions… who is aggitated? there are feelings but no feeler.. the stickinesss seems to ease a little. Feeling very tired so leaving this here.

Good night and thank you x

[Nina]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to addo problem have the questions for you answer from direct experience other guides may have further questions later

Love and light

Nina