Looking for a guide

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad,
For the second day in a roll I was almost done with my reply and lost it somehow before I sent it! So hard when so much is put into this:( I went to the link you sent me to review and as I tried to get back to this post and what I had done was lost...I will start over but good stuff was lost:( Better care needs to be taken as I respond...

You asked what motivates the fear...Is there someone living it's life? I can clearly answer no to that especially after reviewing the link you sent me:)
Then I did the pointing exersise you asked me to do...with my eyes closed it was so clear that there is no one there to point to! And when I opened my eyes for the briefest of moments there was no me & no one to point too:)

You asked me to look at the seeking is there anyone seeking? No...I know that there are thoughts about seeking, getting it, do better, or you'll never get it...But I clearly am getting they are all thoughts coming up and then fading away until more thoughts come up to remind me to look at them and act!!!

You next set of questions were very interesting!!! Can thought want anything? No, but why do they it feel like the "me" can based on these thoughts? And then I look for that me and cant find it??? You then ask what is thought? I can't explain thought it just shows up out of no where and seems to get acted on or not and drifts back to no where... But this ME I seem to buy into thougt and acts on them??? Until I look like this! Can it think you ask? No thoughts can't think...but action is taken somehow or not??? Can it want you ask? No thoughts can't want...but desire happens and is or so not acted on??? Right? This seems nuts as I look at this....

You ask am I the controller? And I read the link you sent....I am in awe of how you seem to send me whats needed to see clearer!!! I clearly am not the controller althought it sure can feel like I am most of the time! Thats why I feel in the mess in life I guess.... There I go with the "I" as if I exist...

You ask can I choose at anytime durring the day to think a thought? Oh how I clearly see the ansswer is no! A week ago I would have gone toe to toe with anyone debating this question Nenad!!! NO so clear:)

I went on to say I see somewhat clearly that there is no one here...You ask what I mean by somewhat do I have doubts about that? Today I feel much clearer on that then yesterday....this is such a grace!

I said the tapes keep rolling and you said it's ok can the tapes do anything? Wow Nenad NO they can't! NO THEY CAN"T...

I want to keep going am sitting here responding and I feel such peace as life is just happening and there's an ease in that there is no one here that has to do anything...Thank you Nenad:) you are wonderful....

[nenad]

Hi :)

For the second day in a roll I was almost done with my reply and lost it somehow before I sent it! So hard when so much is put into this:( I went to the link you sent me to review and as I tried to get back to this post and what I had done was lost...I will start over but good stuff was lost:( Better care needs to be taken as I respond...

The forum can log you out without warning. If you're typing a post directly in the edit box here, and you get logged out before you click Submit, your words can get lost. There are two ways to avoid this. One, use the Preview button frequently. That will keep you logged in. Or two, type your responses in a separate program like Notepad first, then copy and paste them into the forum.

You asked what motivates the fear...Is there someone living it's life? I can clearly answer no to that especially after reviewing the link you sent me:)

Good. What makes you so sure?

Then I did the pointing exersise you asked me to do...with my eyes closed it was so clear that there is no one there to point to! And when I opened my eyes for the briefest of moments there was no me & no one to point too:)

:)

You asked me to look at the seeking is there anyone seeking? No...I know that there are thoughts about seeking, getting it, do better, or you'll never get it...But I clearly am getting they are all thoughts coming up and then fading away until more thoughts come up to remind me to look at them and act!!!

Good. Again, what makes you so sure about this?

You next set of questions were very interesting!!! Can thought want anything? No,

Good, thought can't want or not want anything!

You then ask what is thought? I can't explain thought it just shows up out of no where

Good!

and seems to get acted on or not and drifts back to no where... But this ME I seem to buy into thougt and acts on them??? Until I look like this! Can it think you ask? No thoughts can't think...but action is taken somehow or not??? Can it want you ask? No thoughts can't want...but desire happens and is or so not acted on??? Right? This seems nuts as I look at this....

Tap with two or three fingers on the leg. Tap, tap, tap. Then, hold the fingers positioned ready to tap. Just waiting in the air for a command to tap.

Looking at the fingers in the air, is it known when they will tap? Can the thought “tap now” quite happily show up and yet the fingers remain in the air?

See if you can notice the moment when the command is issued and from whence it comes SUCH THAT the fingers simply have to obey. Notice if other commands to tap can be issued which have no affect on the fingers, leaving them remaining in the air.

Is it so that in direct experience there is no command that can be issued to make the fingers tap?

What causes the finger to tap? Anything? See what can be discovered in experience rather than thought.

You ask am I the controller? And I read the link you sent....

Not just read it, please do all 3 exercises and report on it :)

I am in awe of how you seem to send me whats needed to see clearer!!! I clearly am not the controller althought it sure can feel like I am most of the time! Thats why I feel in the mess in life I guess.... There I go with the "I" as if I exist...

:)

You ask can I choose at anytime durring the day to think a thought? Oh how I clearly see the ansswer is no! A week ago I would have gone toe to toe with anyone debating this question Nenad!!! NO so clear:)

Good.

I went on to say I see somewhat clearly that there is no one here...You ask what I mean by somewhat do I have doubts about that? Today I feel much clearer on that then yesterday....this is such a grace!

Good!

I want to keep going am sitting here responding and I feel such peace as life is just happening and there's an ease in that there is no one here that has to do anything...

Good!This is going great!

Love!

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad,
Thank you for the tips…I am doing my responses in word and then doing a copy paste…So thank you!
I made the comment that based on what motivates the fear… I said I was sure that there was no one living its life. You ask in this post what makes me so sure? When I really look, I mean really look and ask where is this person that is so full of fear and thinking these thoughts I can’t find a person! Thoughts keep coming up and I take action or I don’t BUT when I really step back and look and ask where is this person acting on these thoughts, fears, beliefs….I can’t find one!
You then asked me the same question “what makes me so sure”? When I said there is no seeker…And again I have to really deliberately look and ask where is this seeker and where is this person that says you ‘ll never get it no matter how hard you try? And all the other tapes that show up…Again I cannot find a person behind all this seeking??? Just as with the thoughts that surface!
I was again struck when I made the response that thought can’t want anything…You said that’s right thought can’t want or not want!!!! Wow that opens it right up before me thought can’t want OR not want…. It made it clearer that thoughts surface and that’s all the power they have…!
Nenad the tapping fingers exercise was amazing! When I tapped three times and then held the fingers in the air and didn’t respond to the command to tap again I was blown away…What I realized is I could have just as easily tapped again when the command came, but the point for me was thoughts/commands come up and can or not be followed! I find that there is no controller just a thought to do a command or not…am I just babbling? This feels BIG….You ask in the end what causes the finger to tap? Anything? And to see what can be discovered in experience rather than thought… What causes the finger to tap is the thought/command to do so comes up and it’s followed or it’s not followed but there’s no one there aside from the thought/command to do so??? I am confusing myself a bit now??? A thought comes up then how the heck does it happen? I think it’s a mystery like how my breathing happens, my eyes blink, my heart beats…it just does… Oh my am I in any way on the path? It sure feels like I am as answers come up…just questions around this surface too???
You asked me to go back to the link on the controller and report on all three exercises…I re-read and did all three and here is a report on all three
1.) Walking exercise: As I did this exercise again today it and it became so clear as I walked that there really is no controller it (walking) just happens! I felt sensations in my feet and legs and the thought I am a little stiff from my morning run came up and went…
2.) Arm exercise: Pretty much the same thing Nenad….I have a sore right shoulder and as I did the arm movements it is clear that there is no controller but the thought surfaced that my right shoulder was a little tighter than my left…I clearly saw them as thoughts coming up…but no again as in the first exercise no controller…
3.) Pick a though from your day: I have a good one! Waiting here for an water softener company to come and install a water softener and they are over an hour late…I notice the thought of frustration surfacing and will they show up??? But as in the other two exercises I see that thoughts just come up but no controller or doer doing anything!!! Bits of anger and frustration around this but for now it’s just what’s showing up for no one
I responded to all you asked me too today Nenad thank you! I notice a thought keeps surfacing as I continue this process and it gets more and more intense and that is the thought “am I getting this” or “am I fooling myself” I just took a moment to sit with this and I see that they are just thoughts coming up and there is no one here to do anything with these thoughts and they drop away and other thoughts follow. This is so helpful for really “no one” :)
Love:)

[nenad]

Hey :)

When I really look, I mean really look and ask where is this person that is so full of fear and thinking these thoughts I can’t find a person!

Good!

And again I have to really deliberately look and ask where is this seeker and where is this person that says you ‘ll never get it no matter how hard you try?

Describe, as precisely as possible, relying on DE, this supposed person that says 'you'll never get it no matter how hard you try?

I was again struck when I made the response that thought can’t want anything…You said that’s right thought can’t want or not want!!!! Wow that opens it right up before me thought can’t want OR not want…. It made it clearer that thoughts surface and that’s all the power they have…!

Great!!

Nenad the tapping fingers exercise was amazing! When I tapped three times and then held the fingers in the air and didn’t respond to the command to tap again I was blown away…What I realized is I could have just as easily tapped again when the command came, but the point for me was thoughts/commands come up and can or not be followed! I find that there is no controller just a thought to do a command or not…

yes! exactly!

Oh my am I in any way on the path?

yes! :)

1.) Walking exercise: As I did this exercise again today it and it became so clear as I walked that there really is no controller it (walking) just happens!

yes

I felt sensations in my feet and legs and the thought I am a little stiff from my morning run came up and went…

good.

2.) Arm exercise: Pretty much the same thing Nenad….I have a sore right shoulder and as I did the arm movements it is clear that there is no controller but the thought surfaced that my right shoulder was a little tighter than my left…I clearly saw them as thoughts coming up…but no again as in the first exercise no controller…

yes

3.) Pick a though from your day: I have a good one! Waiting here for an water softener company to come and install a water softener and they are over an hour late…I notice the thought of frustration surfacing and will they show up??? But as in the other two exercises I see that thoughts just come up but no controller or doer doing anything!!! Bits of anger and frustration around this but for now it’s just what’s showing up for no one

yes.

I responded to all you asked me too today Nenad thank you! I notice a thought keeps surfacing as I continue this process and it gets more and more intense and that is the thought “am I getting this” or “am I fooling myself” I just took a moment to sit with this and I see that they are just thoughts coming up and there is no one here to do anything with these thoughts and they drop away and other thoughts follow. This is so helpful for really “no one” :)

yes:) This is going great! keep looking!

Point with the finger to the table, floor, wall, foot, knee, chest...Look what the finger is pointing to...
Now, point with the finger to where you ussually assume your face is. What is the finger pointing to?

Much love <3

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad,
You ask me relying on DE to describe this person who says I’ll never get it no matter how hard you try… I see as I sit with this what comes up for me is it is a thought that surfaces as far back as I can remember delivering this same message your different, not good enough, you’ll never get it, stop trying…and on and on and on! I see now as we have drilled down in this process that it’s just another thought that surfaces in my awareness and either it’s acted on or not. Up until I started working with you I bought into the thoughts all day every day! Not so much at this point I ask… who is it that is acting on this thought? If I ask and look I see there is no one just these thoughts coming up. Seems clear and easy as I sit with this and then in the midst of the day I can get hooked in by one of these thoughts and now I may catch myself and realize I am acting on the thoughts that are coming up…Or I may not catch it:( I feel as if I shouldn’t ask this question Nenad but I will. This that we are doing here seems so clear when you ask the questions and I respond based on what I have seen as I have continued this process. But what or why when this seems to becoming more and more obvious does it elude me in my daily life? Does that make sense? Seems a huge shift needs to happen (whack on the side of the heard) to see this clearly “ALL THE TIME”. What keeps it hidden when it is so obvious?

The pointing exercise was again eye opening as I pointed to objects in the room as you had suggested I identified each object…But when I pointed back at my face! No way....really, I sure can’t see my face from this vantage point and what I saw when I pointed back at what should be my face was nothing just this open space where my face should be, looking out at everything in the room the finger and all the objects…But it was like there was nothing on this end just what seems like space looking out. Or maybe everything was this space seeing out into the room??? This is really an interesting exercise!

I’m hungry for more I have a burning desire to push as hard as I can…Each time I get your response and I continue to answer your questions and do the exercises I am in awe of what they reveal!!!

Love…

[nenad]

Hi, Bob!


With EYES CLOSED … consider the following:

Going by your own, present experience, not by memory, hearsay or imagination, how big are you?

What shape are you?

Could you be any size or shape?

Do you have boundaries?

Is there a place where you stop and the world begins?


There are sensations such as warmth, discomfort, pleasure, breathing and so on. Do these make you into 'something' at centre, solid and limited – a thing separate from the world around you? Is there anything solid and unchanging at the centre of experience?


How big is a sensation? Does it define or limit you?

and either it’s acted on or not.

How is choice experienced?
When there is option to, for example, either stand up, or not stand up, what happens? how is choosing experienced?

who is it that is acting on this thought? If I ask and look I see there is no one just these thoughts coming up.

yes

I feel as if I shouldn’t ask this question Nenad but I will. This that we are doing here seems so clear when you ask the questions and I respond based on what I have seen as I have continued this process. But what or why when this seems to becoming more and more obvious does it elude me in my daily life? Does that make sense? Seems a huge shift needs to happen (whack on the side of the heard) to see this clearly “ALL THE TIME”. What keeps it hidden when it is so obvious?

Yes, what keeps it hidden when it is so obvious? What makes the illusion seem so real? Look throughout the day how it works. What is that creates illusion, how does it create exactly?

The pointing exercise was again eye opening as I pointed to objects in the room as you had suggested I identified each object…But when I pointed back at my face! No way....really, I sure can’t see my face from this vantage point and what I saw when I pointed back at what should be my face was nothing just this open space where my face should be, looking out at everything in the room the finger and all the objects…But it was like there was nothing on this end just what seems like space looking out. Or maybe everything was this space seeing out into the room??? This is really an interesting exercise!

Good!

Lots of Love!

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad,
You directed me to do the following: With EYES CLOSED … considers the following:

Going by your own, present experience, not by memory, hearsay or imagination, how big is you?

What shape are you?

Could you be any size or shape?

Do you have boundaries?

Is there a place where you stop and the world begins?
I closed my eyes and what I found to be the case was I was just space, huge no limits and no real description really explains it just open space…But also an awareness of me at the same time seeing this space…
I had no shape, it was just this space is the best way I can describe it…
I could be any size or shape but I am having a hard time getting away from this wide open space with no limits…
You ask if I have any boundaries when I looked? No none at all it was wide open no limits no boundaries!
I found that there is no place where I stop and the world begins… I have to say this is hard to describe…I somehow didn’t feel like “me” in this exercise? I tried to find a “me” at one point and I couldn’t but yet this space was me at the same time???


There are sensations such as warmth, discomfort, pleasure, breathing and so on. Do these make you into 'something' at centre, solid and limited – a thing separate from the world around you? Is there anything solid and unchanging at the centre of experience?
No in this exercise whatever came up breathing, discomfort, warmth ect… I felt no centre, nothing solid and limited and not separate from the world I was the space that had all these things in me (best way to say it) open and aware of this space! And yes that’s it! There is this kind of presence at the center of it all that is solid yes….and unchanging seeing all of this. I am describing all of THIS from that place it seems…
How big is a sensation? Does it define or limit you?
No not at all, sensations just show up as do thoughts and I see they are not solid they come up and go but I seem unaffected by them as I focus on them…
How is choice experienced?
When there is option to, for example, either stand up, or not stand up, what happens? how is choosing experienced?
Choice is experienced and right now I’m questioning how??? Most choices seem so automatic I am not even aware of a decision being made to stand or sit (most of the time)! I have believed all my 59 years that it’s “me” making the decisions in “my life” but it’s becoming clearer to me that there is no one there to decide anything!!!! Again most of my choosing just happens without my conscious awareness of it… And sometimes it seems otherwise i.e.…when I run a marathon there is a lot of thought that I believed “I” was weighing to make a decision if I should or shouldn’t run the marathon??? So that is confusing and then I look and now I am starting to see that it’s just thoughts (lots) of thoughts and then one is acting on by no one… seems crazy!

Yes, what keeps it hidden when it is so obvious? What makes the illusion seem so real? Look throughout the day how it works. What is that creates illusion, how does it create exactly?
This is a hard question??? I find as I look throughout the day that thoughts, beliefs and sensations are non-stop!!! And action of these things happen and they are so ingrained and un-noticed that somehow it happens??? Somehow this character takes action or so it seems??? Ok this is beyond me right now I’m not sure I’m stumped…HELP?
Thank you Nenad for sticking with me!!! I so do love you…
Bob

PS Sorry Nenad my copy / paste didn't work very well...hope you can read all this. I will not do it that way next time...sorry:(

[nenad]

Hey :)

I closed my eyes and what I found to be the case was I was just space, huge no limits and no real description really explains it just open space…But also an awareness of me at the same time seeing this space…
I had no shape, it was just this space is the best way I can describe it…
I could be any size or shape but I am having a hard time getting away from this wide open space with no limits…
You ask if I have any boundaries when I looked? No none at all it was wide open no limits no boundaries!
I found that there is no place where I stop and the world begins… I have to say this is hard to describe…I somehow didn’t feel like “me” in this exercise? I tried to find a “me” at one point and I couldn’t but yet this space was me at the same time???

Good.
You say you had no shape, Do you have any shape now?

There are sensations such as warmth, discomfort, pleasure, breathing and so on. Do these make you into 'something' at centre, solid and limited – a thing separate from the world around you? Is there anything solid and unchanging at the centre of experience?
No in this exercise whatever came up breathing, discomfort, warmth ect… I felt no centre, nothing solid and limited and not separate from the world I was the space that had all these things in me (best way to say it) open and aware of this space!

Good.

There is this kind of presence at the center of it all that is solid yes….and unchanging seeing all of this. I am describing all of THIS from that place it seems…

Take a good look: What is this presence? Can it experience anything?
Is it in center? Do you experience it being in center? Center of what? :)

How big is a sensation? Does it define or limit you?
No not at all, sensations just show up as do thoughts and I see they are not solid they come up and go but I seem unaffected by them as I focus on them…

yes

I have believed all my 59 years that it’s “me” making the decisions in “my life” but it’s becoming clearer to me that there is no one there to decide anything!!!!

:)

i.e.…when I run a marathon there is a lot of thought that I believed “I” was weighing to make a decision if I should or shouldn’t run the marathon??? So that is confusing and then I look and now I am starting to see that it’s just thoughts (lots) of thoughts and then one is acting on by no one… seems crazy!

Good, it's just thoughts. Are you thinking them?

Yes, what keeps it hidden when it is so obvious? What makes the illusion seem so real? Look throughout the day how it works. What is that creates illusion, how does it create exactly?
This is a hard question??? I find as I look throughout the day that thoughts, beliefs and sensations are non-stop!!! And action of these things happen and they are so ingrained and un-noticed that somehow it happens??? Somehow this character takes action or so it seems??? Ok this is beyond me right now I’m not sure I’m stumped…HELP?

Look into this: "they are so ingrained and un-noticed" In what way are they un-noticed? If they are un-noticed, how can you report on them?

When looking, can there be seen someone seeing or just the seen?
When listening, can there be heard someone hearing, or just the heard?
When feeling, can there be felt someone feeling or just the felt?

Take another go through link on direct experience ( http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html ) and then tell me what is the direct experience of this moment right now?

This is going well, keep looking!

PS Sorry Nenad my copy / paste didn't work very well...hope you can read all this. I will not do it that way next time...sorry:(

No worries!

Thank you Nenad for sticking with me!!! I so do love you…

You are welcome! I love you too :)

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad!
You asked in response to me saying I had no shape or size…Do you have a shape now? No I do not have a shape even now as I re-report it to you I am shapeless and boundarieless :)
Take a good look: What is this presence? Can it experience anything?
Is it in center? Do you experience it being in center? Center of what? :)
This presence is what seems to be behind everything a solid unchanging background or awareness…It is the experience of everything that is… There is no center of this presence it is open and what seems to be aware space? There is no center to it at all….
Good, it's just thoughts. Are you thinking them?
No I am not thinking the thoughts that surface they just show up…I am seeing this clearly most of the time during my day…
Look into this: "they are so ingrained and un-noticed" In what way are they un-noticed? If they are un-noticed, how can you report on them?

When looking, can there be seen someone seeing or just the seen?
When listening, can there be heard someone hearing, or just the heard?
When feeling, can there be felt someone feeling or just the felt?
By un-noticed I mean a thought comes up and action on that thought is taken at times un-noticed automatically by the perceived “me”… When looking there is just seen no one seeing. The same for hearing and feeling it just happens!!! Wow….

Take another go through link on direct experience ( http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html ) and then tell me what is the direct experience of this moment right now?
The DE at this moment is there is no doer doing (typing this response) is just happening thoughts surface, noise outside is heard, seeing the words on the screen are seen and that is what’s happening at this moment… the hands and fingers typing these words belong to no one…Oh boy the thoughts keep coming and awareness that they are thoughts follow yet some seem to hook a “me” and more questions surface Ughhh…A little frustration creeps in:( Seems I get this little person chirping in my ear and doubt surfaces if I’m being honest at times as I look at this…Please be hard and straight with me Nenad….
Love:)

[nenad]

Hi, I will reply little later
Lots of Love :)

[nenad]

Hey :)

You asked in response to me saying I had no shape or size…Do you have a shape now? No I do not have a shape even now as I re-report it to you I am shapeless and boundarieless :)

:)

No I am not thinking the thoughts that surface they just show up…I am seeing this clearly most of the time during my day…

Good. What about the situations in witch it seems as if you are thinking them? Describe this 'you' entity that seems to be thinking them. Describe it as precisely as possible from DE.

By un-noticed I mean a thought comes up and action on that thought is taken at times un-noticed automatically by the perceived “me”…

Yes, life happens automatically!!! You seem to be assuming that if something happens automatically it means that it is done by 'me'? Or am I misunderstanding you? Tell me more about this automatic things. Isn't everything during the day automatic? Is there any activity that is consciuosely done? Do you do anything or is everything on automatic?
Are you a noticer that notices things? Is there anyone noticing that thought is just a thought? Or is this noticing yet another thought?

When looking there is just seen no one seeing. The same for hearing and feeling it just happens!!! Wow….

Yes! Wow indeed :)

Take another go through link on direct experience ( http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html ) and then tell me what is the direct experience of this moment right now?
The DE at this moment is there is no doer doing (typing this response) is just happening thoughts surface, noise outside is heard, seeing the words on the screen are seen and that is what’s happening at this moment… the hands and fingers typing these words belong to no one…

Good!!

Oh boy the thoughts keep coming and awareness that they are thoughts follow

What is this 'awareness that they are just thought'? Isn't it yet another thought?

yet some seem to hook a “me”

What do you mean by this?

A little frustration creeps in:(

Look at this frustration: Acknowledge it. Feel it. Let thought tell whatever story about this feeling. And then notice: Witch of this stories might be true - write them here so that we can look at them.

Seems I get this little person chirping in my ear

Look at this 'person'. What size, shape and form does it have? Describe it as precisely as possible from DE.

and doubt surfaces if I’m being honest at times as I look at this…Please be hard and straight with me Nenad….

Good. Let this doubt remind you to be 100% honest when you reply.

Have another go at doer/controller exercises. http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html
Go through all 3 of them and write the answers here.

This is going well!

With Love :)

[ABBR02]

Hi Nenad,

Good. What about the situations in witch it seems as if you are thinking them? Describe this 'you' entity that seems to be thinking them. Describe it as precisely as possible from DE.
The me entity that seems to be thinking them…Hmmmm I’ll take a run at this best I can. What happens is so automatic it seems I don’t really have an awareness that they are thoughts it seems its life (my life) living as it has always done??? I see as I look that they are the thoughts, beliefs and conditioning that was instilled in me as a young child all threw my life. It happens so automatic unless I am aware??? Why is this so hard to explain? I think because it’s my main operating system when I buy into the story… If I look at it from DE I see that they are clearly just thoughts surfacing but the “me” unaware of this operates as it has always operated buying into it ALL! Wow really a vague answer hah?

Yes, life happens automatically!!! You seem to be assuming that if something happens automatically it means that it is done by 'me'? Or am I misunderstanding you? Tell me more about this automatic things. Isn't everything during the day automatic? Is there any activity that is consciuosely done? Do you do anything or is everything on automatic?
Are you a noticer that notices things? Is there anyone noticing that thought is just a thought? Or is this noticing yet another thought?

Oh goodness these questions are tough for me today… Yes when I say life happens automatically I do mean it’s done by “me” yes… Maybe automatic isn’t the correct word what I mean there is no filter life just passes through “me” based on the conditioning I grew up with and continue to hold on to unless I catch a thought, belief or condition as it happens… I agree with the question you ask isn’t everything during the day automatic? Yes but it’s the story of this ego I buy into and the fear I walk around with saying I don’t fit in, measure up or don’t get it… I believe there is activity consciously done…that happens when I am aware of a thought and proceed with an action??? Yes on you final question I believe I am the noticer that notices things…But I agree with your final question too noticing is another thought! Nenad why am I so getting all messed up with this? I seem to be hitting a wall and it frustrates me!!! I’m feeling blocked?
What is this 'awareness that they are just thought'? Isn't it yet another thought?
Yes yes it is when you ask me that and I look I see it is another thought!!! What is going on?
What do you mean by this?
The me acts on a thought or belief….such as you’ll never get this so give up!!! That is the way I feel today and it seems the more “I” acknowledge that thought the more frustrated I am getting:(…..Yet I can’t seem to look at where and to whom these thoughts and beliefs are aimed?
Look at this frustration: Acknowledge it. Feel it. Let thought tell whatever story about this feeling. And then notice: Witch of this stories might be true - write them here so that we can look at them.
What feel true is the thought “I will never cross through the gate”! I just don’t seem to get it…try as I might it will never happen…It’s like all the years of seeking to this point where has it really truly gotten me? I feel exposed as a failure as I sit here today something in me feels very strongly about this! My day to day life has been like this some days good other days seem totally locked up in the crazy story about the struggling me:(
Look at this 'person'. What size, shape and form does it have? Describe it as precisely as possible from DE.
This is where I again am confused when I sit with this question I see it is just another thought that comes up but a strong thought that seems to suck the “me” into and as I have said the cycle continues… but it is clearly as I look at it today just another thought…
Have another go at doer/controller exercises. http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html
Go through all 3 of them and write the answers here.
OK…I re-read and did all three exercises Nenad….Please tell me why in a controlled situation being directed to do so things are so clear? The walking, arm movements and a random thought out of my day…All three it was very very clear that there was no doer and movement was just happening. I re-read DE and it so resonates with me… I so get there is no doer actions happen and no one is directing them or anything! Why am I feeling such a wall is up then. Its one thing to look and see this…But another thing to be what feels like controlled by it all (emphasis on the words feel controlled)???
I feel a bit of a basket case today Nenad…Going outside to work in my garden now…Thanks for reading this and sticking with me! I have this visual of you scratching your head saying this is a tough case:)
Love ya!!!!

[nenad]

How is noticing experienced? Describe it in detail from DE

I feel a bit of a basket case today Nenad…Going outside to work in my garden now…Thanks for reading this and sticking with me! I have this visual of you scratching your head saying this is a tough case:)

:))

[ABBR02]

How is noticing experienced? Describe it in detail from DE

Noticing is experienced as a thought that comes into my awareness...such as "what a damp gray day out today. I wish it was sunny!!!" From DE that thought surfaced and my response (another thought) I sure wish it was sunny was the next thought. As I described it here I see that the noticing is thoughts. What I find to be the case as I sit here is thoughts never stop coming and some pass with little or no noticing (just un-aware) and some thoughts are important to what I call me so it seems action follows thoughts.

Nenad, why am I struggling the more we explore and probe and ask and respond to questions? My mood has been terrible the past several days and I seem to be fighting this! I feel lacking in my ability to understand and respond in an open honest way... I've read a million books and listened to hundreds of pod casts and have a burning passion to keep pushing!!! But I am struggling!!! Please be honest in your response do I need to just back off of this process? It would hurt if the answer was yes...At the same time I don't want to waste your time:( Again the desire I have to pass through and keep working is beyond explaination. I wish words could describe this place I am at right now....it's not pleasent. Thank you so much for reading and responding!

Love....

[nenad]

Hi!

Noticing is experienced as a thought that comes into my awareness...such as "what a damp gray day out today. I wish it was sunny!!!" From DE that thought surfaced and my response (another thought) I sure wish it was sunny was the next thought. As I described it here I see that the noticing is thoughts.

Right. How about noticing thoughts? How is noticing of thoughts experienced?

Earlier you said this:

Yes on you final question I believe I am the noticer that notices things…

Interesting. So you are noticer that notices? There is a personal you after all? As a noticer?

What I find to be the case as I sit here is thoughts never stop coming and some pass with little or no noticing (just un-aware) and some thoughts are important to what I call me so it seems action follows thoughts.

The goal of this process is not to silence the thoughts, to make them stop coming. The goal is not to be aware of thoughts either. What does it mean to be aware of thoughts? What can be aware of thoughts?

Nenad, why am I struggling the more we explore and probe and ask and respond to questions?

You expect this process to make you a better noticer of thoughts. A noticer that notices well, doesn't let thoughts run unobserved, doesn't allow automatic unaware actions.
This is not the goal of this inquiry, so it's not happening. Maybe that is what is frustrating. This process can't make you a better noticer, it can only invite you to LOOK: are you a noticer? If there is no you, then what noticing means? What can notice what?

Please be honest in your response do I need to just back off of this process? It would hurt if the answer was yes...

Not at all!! Every reply you give is clearer than the previous one. Keep looking, this is going great, struggling is not a bad sign.

At the same time I don't want to waste your time:(

You are not!

Again the desire I have to pass through and keep working is beyond explaination.

Good!!

I wish words could describe this place I am at right now....it's not pleasent.

That is OK.

Thank you so much for reading and responding!

You are very welcome!

Technical note: read this link for instructions how to use quote function: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Love :)