I'm ready to try again.

[tek]

I've been here before. That time I guess I was pretty stuck with certain concepts. Anyway, I've been away from all this enlightenment stuff for like a year now. I just got fed up with it, since it felt like I got nowhere. I wasn't making any progress.

But now, I'm ready to try again. I want to be happy. I want permanent happiness. The happiness that depends on nothing.

If someone feels that they can make a difference with me, then have a go with it.

[bluejohns]

Hello, welcome back my friend.

I can help.

Tell me more about your expectations... you speak about 'happiness that depends on nothing'. Please can you go into detail about that and any other expectations you have?

John


(what shall I call you?)

[tek]

Hello, welcome back my friend.

I can help.

Hello, and thank you.

Tell me more about your expectations... you speak about 'happiness that depends on nothing'. Please can you go into detail about that and any other expectations you have?

Certainly. All my life I've been searching for happiness that lasts. Up until a certain point in my life I did not know that this was what I was looking for, but then certain realizations came and I understood that it was so. I also understood that lasting happiness can never be found in anything impermanent, simply because happiness found in impermanent things will itself be impermanent. That happiness will arise and subside with that.

I guess other expectations I have is that enlightenment will take away all my suffering, and give me peace. To be gone with this itch I have inside that seems to say "No, this is not IT either".

[bluejohns]

Ok, so currently what is your understanding of 'I' or 'me'. What do you believe yourself to be? What do you see yourself to be?

[tek]

Ok, so currently what is your understanding of 'I' or 'me'. What do you believe yourself to be? What do you see yourself to be?

That is a complex question, because it varies from time to time. Mostly I would say that I believe myself to be the body. But there are times when I see that I can't be the body, since the body is observed by me.

There are also times when I am totally absorbed in the mind and thoughts. In those instances I believe myself to be the mind.

Also, I do understand that 'I' is a thought, just as other thoughts, but with somewhat greater importance.

But then there is also the sense of "I am"; not the thought 'I'. That which feels like my very essence. Better described as "the aliveness" perhaps.

[bluejohns]

Ok. So the body is labeled the body, yes? Is it labeled 'my' body? These labels are believed, yes? Or do you see them as thoughts? What is the difference in your perception between the body you observe and everything else in your vision, other than a thought that labels it so?

[tek]

Ok. So the body is labeled the body, yes? Is it labeled 'my' body? These labels are believed, yes? Or do you see them as thoughts?

Yes, I would say that it is labeled 'my' body. The very notion of saying "my body" seems to suggest that I am not the body, but rather that I own the body. That I am in possession of the body. But for the most time I discard this and act like I am the body. Of course when I examine it I do understand that these labels are thoughts of the mind.

What is the difference in your perception between the body you observe and everything else in your vision, other than a thought that labels it so?

The difference is that the body seem closer to me than everything else. It is more intimate and dear to me than everything else is. It is the instrument by which I am able to experience everything else, and it seems to be that without it I would not be able to experience anything. Therefore I also take good care of it from fear of losing it.

[bluejohns]

Yes, it can do. Look directly at the fear of loosing the body. Can you see this is a thought and a sensation?

[tek]

Yes, it can do. Look directly at the fear of loosing the body. Can you see this is a thought and a sensation?

Yes, I do see that it's a thought and an emotional response to the thought.

[bluejohns]

do they arise together or does the thought come first or the feeling in the body come first?

[tek]

do they arise together or does the thought come first or the feeling in the body come first?

The thought comes first and then the feeling arises instantaneously after, like a reaction to the thought.

[bluejohns]

Why is the body 'my body' ? What makes it so other than thought that is believed?

[tek]

Why is the body 'my body' ? What makes it so other than thought that is believed?

That's a good question. I would have to say that the notion of ownership over the body comes from the fact that it responds to my wishes. That I have some degree of control over it. Because it responds to my will, and it doesn't respond to other peoples wills, my conclusion is that it's 'my body'.

[bluejohns]

What are you in control of?

[bluejohns]

You are not in control of anything. Trying thinking a certain thought. Can you watch the thoughts and select what kind of thought you would like?