Peace, this is your thread

[Elizabeth]

Hello, Peace,
Glad you are here. Wold you like to fill in some backstory, and tell me what you expect from this process?
I'm Elizabeth, living in the States, sought peace in many ways, many years.

[Peace]

Hello Elizabeth,nice to hear from you. Sorry its taken me long to reply but i felt somewhat naked. Anyways,here goes the gist of my story.I should mention i was born in a muslim family. Ive been having spiritual experiences since quite a while. Since about a year and a half, all ive been doing is contemplating, prostrating and meditating to god the whole night,relishing in his remembrance,or so i thought. I also have dreams that come true since a long time. Suddenly ive stopped praying.Ive always felt blessed ,but even in my happiest moments, ive always felt something was amiss.Its kind of hard to explain.Even my happiest moments have been accompanied with a feeling of restlessness, kind of like being trapped or not being whole...a strange anxiousness. My cousin had spoken to me about the self not existing about 2 years ago,but even though the idea had a strange pull to it,i was too scared to let my concepts fall away.Too risky.Even dangerous somehow. Recently ive experienced moments where i feel the absence of self and being a part of the whole.It hits me the hardest when im out in the nature.The trees,the birds,the sunset.There i feel the absence of self and its where im most content. its lovely to see how everything just is,not looking to go somewhere or to do anything. Just is. I wish i could feel the absence of self all of the time or atleast for most part and not just experience it at sacred moments.Also i just wish this nagging feeling of guilt that im being ungrateful would go away.I do get thoughts like "what if im wrong?" "what if this is just in my head?" at times, and at other times i feel convinced that this is it. Im sorry for sounding crazy but i just don't know where to go from here.Thanks for reading my warped story.

[Elizabeth]

I'm very glad to hear from you.
Many who come to this forum have had experiences, interesting ones :-) Many come here with a sense of dissatisfaction, the feeling that something is missing, or somehow wrong. This can drive long term seeking, this wish to be peaceful. Not caught up in a sense of self that seems to suffer. A less than happy story about a self.
So you don't seem unusual to me. Welcome here.

With this process, we seldom entirely lose a sense of self (which can be a useful thing), we simply come to know that it is not an actual entity that runs our lives. In fact, as I am sure you have discussed with your cousin, there is nothing there but thoughts ABOUT a self.
There it is, easy to say, apparently harder to see directly!

So we examine and test the thoughts about a self. The mechanisms by which a self creates, and continually recreates a self.
We see if what I and your cousin claim, can possibly be true for you, in your life.
When I ask you what is a self and what does it do? what comes up for you? Let's look at it.
Love, Elizabeth

[Peace]

Thankyou,am glad am here. The experience ive been having is interesting for most,but quite terrifying for me really. The only reason i don't want to talk about it here, is because i'll sound like a complete lunatic.Surprisingly though, moments where i don't feel in the least terrified is when im in that state.Sacred moments.Seldom moments.Its there.Its real.Am just not bothered then.I'll msg you privately about that.
Coming to that question, what is a self? I guess i would answer as most would.Everything that defines me, ie, my thoughts,my emotions, my characteristics,my habits,my good side,my ungrateful side,my temperament,my spiritual side and all my experiences that have molded me, are "me" or my "self".
What does it do? Everything i do, ie, i eat, i drink,i pray(not presently), i preach(until recently),i act, or react,i feel.
I feel stupid writing about my "self". Strange.I just wish i could see through the illusion permanently,if ever possible.

[Elizabeth]

Thankyou,am glad am here. The experience ive been having is interesting for most,but quite terrifying for me really. The only reason i don't want to talk about it here, is because i'll sound like a complete lunatic.Surprisingly though, moments where i don't feel in the least terrified is when im in that state.Sacred moments.Seldom moments.Its there.Its real.Am just not bothered then.I'll msg you privately about that.
Coming to that question, what is a self? I guess i would answer as most would.Everything that defines me, ie, my thoughts,my emotions, my characteristics,my habits,my good side,my ungrateful side,my temperament,my spiritual side and all my experiences that have molded me, are "me" or my "self".
What does it do? Everything i do, ie, i eat, i drink,i pray(not presently), i preach(until recently),i act, or react,i feel.
I feel stupid writing about my "self". Strange.I just wish i could see through the illusion permanently,if ever possible.

We only have to see through this illusion once. Then, the character is seen, like a character in a book. You may still read the book, react to the situations, but you know it's a character.
I hear you are experiencing fear.
What is the fear trying to tell you? Go into it and just ask, as if it was a friend, frightened, and you wanted to see what was the matter.
Give this part of the character a chance to let you know.
Chances are, the things it says, are referring to thoughts ABOUT something.
Let's look at that. Thoughts are how stories get started :-)
It's all about a you. Until it isn't.
Much love, Elizabeth

[Elizabeth]

Peace, I guess life is busy, so I'll just ask a further question, when the fear comes up, is it around control? Or lack of it?
Love, Elizabeth

[Peace]

Hi Elizabeth, im sorry but i should have mentioned that i was going out of town to attend a family wedding for two days and had no access to internet( third world country). Just returned an hour ago. You asked a very interesting question. Fear is telling me i won't be able to love the same way again. Fear is also telling me i might be losing the sense of reality( which infact is the reality), fear is also telling me, i might not care as much about people as i use to and hence not invest as much in relationships! Does that make sense?. I feel like my reactions to people and situations are different somehow, for eg, some people in the family who have really harmed me and hurt me, were at this wedding i was attending. Under usual circumstances, i would've gotten a bad taste in my mouth looking at them, and would have avoided them all the way.Instead, i did'nt feel a THING!!! Nothing.I went so far as meeting them and was really nice to them.Almost felt sorry for them. Alongside, i do have that other stupid thing going on!!

[Elizabeth]

Hi Peace,
Hope it was a lovely wedding and that you are recovering nicely, you sound like it was a different experience from the usual.

"Fear is telling me i won't be able to love the same way again. Fear is also telling me i might be losing the sense of reality( which infact is the reality), fear is also telling me, i might not care as much about people as i use to and hence not invest as much in relationships! Does that make sense?. I feel like my reactions to people and situations are different somehow, for eg, some people in the family who have really harmed me and hurt me, were at this wedding i was attending. Under usual circumstances, i would've gotten a bad taste in my mouth looking at them, and would have avoided them all the way.Instead, i did'nt feel a THING!!! Nothing.I went so far as meeting them and was really nice to them.Almost felt sorry for them. Alongside, i do have that other stupid thing going on!!"

Fear has a lot to say, as it underlies many thoughts about a self. Thanks for letting it talk to us.
I'll reply to the fear from this experience.
-You will be able to love without so much attachment. It's a whole new level.
You just got a taste of how it is to meet people you don't like so much, and you don't even care about your opinion. It was much more pleasant not to be attached to your thoughts about them! Really wonderful observation.
-If you already love people very much, any thoughts you have about needing them, begin to release, leaving more room for love, and less for the fear of losing them, or losing their love for you.
- And, huge bonus, your fear for your self will diminish, as you see how you are making up a fearful self. It's like seeing the Wizard of Oz, you know that movie? Draw back the curtain and once you see how it is working, Pffft! Fear is gone. It was a shared illusion.

And all for an investment in this ongoing conversation and spiritual work.

Let's look at our thoughts. We find so many thoughts linked up, so many stories about our lives. We all live in these stories. In our heads. Maybe not real, like the Wizard :-) We will check.
If you watch the thoughts as they appear in awareness, where are they coming from?
Love, Elizabeth

[Peace]

Loved reading what you wrote.To feel without much attachment! That is exactly how i feel right now. It is rather wonderful, but a lil "scary", as other people don't really understand what to make of you! People who know you, and know you well seem to think you need a shrink! lol. On a serious note, you are right on the mark when you say the needy feeling disappears. Thoughts like "i need him to need me", or "i need him to be happy",or "what will they think of me ?" start diminishing.
You asked where thoughts are coming from? I do know one thing for sure. I def don't think as much as i use to, which is really pleasant because i feel like i can focus more on the actions im suppose to be doing and not dwell so much on thoughts,which is great for me. I needed that. I guess the thoughts are coming from the stories our minds have woven...they seem to just appear out of nowhere like the waves,and then subside.Maybe im not clear on that at this moment?
Thankyou so much for being there for me. Love,Peace.

[Elizabeth]

Hello Peace,
We will not join the raging debate about waht is normal, I am sure they do not need more thoughts :-)

You wrote:
"I guess the thoughts are coming from the stories our minds have woven...they seem to just appear out of nowhere like the waves,and then subside."

Very nice image, thoughts do appear out of seeming nowhere and then subside.
I have some questions about story.
1/ Can you have a story without a thought?
2/ Can you have a thought without a story? Just the noting of experience?
3/ Can a story ever BE the world, or only ABOUT the world?

For practice here, we go about our day, looking at the thoughts and how the stories get constructed. For example:
I make tea, we are almost out, I wish someone would have told me before I went shopping, no-one takes care of us but me!

Even small tasks can come with a big story, it's funny when you look.
Have a lovely day, Peace.
Elizabeth

[Elizabeth]

Do you wish to continue? I am still here.