"Awakening" An Excellent Resolution for 2012 :^)

[vinceschubert]

I like to think of myself

I thinkI expect:

You have a story.
You have a preference in that story.
You believe that story is reality.
You identify with the Character in the story.
Do you think you are him or he is you ?

without the need of intellectual background

It doesn't, in fact it can't be done at an intellectual level.

[moxley]

Do you think you are him or he is you ?

Actually I do.
Denying that would be going back to intellectual level, where I know that I shouldn't be feeling that way.

But from an experiental level it does not make sense that "I" should not be "me".

It doesn't feel like a 'story', it feels like my life. The way it has always been. These things that I experience are happening to ME, not to my neighbour, my parents or my co-worker.

[vinceschubert]

Actually I do.(Do you think you are him or he is you ?)

Excellent, at last something solid.

from an experiental level it does not make sense that "I" should not be "me"

How can you say this in all seriousness ?
i Defy you to find a "me" or an "I" at an experiential level !
You can only have and i/me at a thought (mind) level. And then it's ABOUT someone. It is NOT someone, only about them.
Find the i/me that the thought stuff is ABOUT.
Find it experientially. NO Thoughts ABOUT.
LOOK.

[moxley]

You can only have and i/me at a thought (mind) level. And then it's ABOUT someone. It is NOT someone, only about them.
Find the i/me that the thought stuff is ABOUT.
Find it experientially. NO Thoughts ABOUT.

I think I kind of get the point that you are trying to convey, however, I just can't seem to really SEE this for myself. It's like neither can I show you or see a real self, nor can I see or show you that there is a lack of self. There's just nothing that makes a big impression on me or is different than ever before.

It's like my perspective is always centered in my head. Thats where most or all of the sense information comes in, so I cannot help but experience this as my "main terminal". How can I get rid of that perspective? I don't know.

[vinceschubert]

It's like my perspective is always centered in my head. Thats where most or all of the sense information comes in, so I cannot help but experience this as my "main terminal". How can I get rid of that perspective? I don't know.

Have a look at this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E particularly the part where he uses goggles and head camera to trick this blokes brain into locating his sense of self outside his body.

The other bit to note is towards the end when he shows that the brain makes a decision 6 seconds before the mind kicks in and claims credit.

A good watch.
After that tell me if you can see how your perspective is where conditioning put it.

[moxley]

Hey, that was really a cool watch. Thanks for linking that.

It's indeed incredible how easily the brain can be tricked into someone else's body. But doesn't that exactly prove how we are tied to that ONE perspective all the time when we are walking through life? (considering we are not wearing these cool camera-glasses mostly).

Decisions being made 6s early is really mind-blowing. How can it take THAT long for a decision to reach consciousness. I must admit that I am a little skeptical about that experiment though. Before they started, the guy was instructed to always decide immediately, so I wonder how 6s can even take place. Then they just skipped the whole experiment instead of showing how exactly it was conducted.
Cool stuff nevertheless.

Don't get me wrong, I think this all is really cool and I get it intellectually, I am a pretty open person actually. I just don't get how to really experience all of this myself. Like i said, my sense of self is still trapped in the same place day in day out.
Did a (permanent) change in that perspective take place when you started to "see"?

[vinceschubert]

Did a (permanent) change in that perspective take place when you started to "see"?

i have to give a warning here.
Every person is unique, every liberation is unique.
There may be parallels (or not) between your experience and mine.
The answer is NO. For me it was a subtle, gradual awakening.
Which probably says more about brain conditioning, habit than awakening.
i spent over 40 years trying to 'think' myself into a fantasy called enlightenment.
Part of the fantasy was that there would be a 'sonic boom' when it happened.
Oh! the relief that would occur with such a definite knowing.
Looking back it was probably that orgasmic release that would come with 'knowing' that i anticipated mostly.
When i accepted that there was a 'crack' that i could look through and see 'it', i also accepted how 'ordinary' it all is. This then led on to a state where a 'bleed in' through that 'crack' facilitated a seeing that 'What is in my direct experiencing, is all that IS' and that everything else is part of a story. (not real - to me)
i'm having a little trouble expressing this. Maybe i'll come back to it later.

Yeah, the 6 seconds was a bit hard for me to swallow too, but the principle remains.
It's the organism, the brain - pre-thought, that makes the decision.
The mind (thoughts) kicks in later and claims ownership and gives the decision meaning and purpose - all needlessly.