Asking for guide

[Patrick]

What makes that there is seeing while looking at a tree?
Could you look in the same way at a thought, an emotion, a bodily experience?

[Bruno]

Yes, in fact, I could also look the same way at a thought, an emotion or a bodily experience. With a bodily experience it's often more difficult, because once I sense the emotion, eg.anger, in the body, it's not that easy to see through it, but in fact, it's possible, as I have experienced this, that I can see through even in anger. Sometimes it's like a question of time, when the seeing is at first place, it's no more possible that the emotion eg. anger, is overwhelming me bodily. So how can I get the seeing at first place? Is seeing already always at first place :-)? Is the question of time therefore dissolved?

[Patrick]

What is your answer to these questions?
What is seeing?

[Bruno]

Yes, seeing is at first place and actually there is no second place. Seeing is seeing. I feel and know from within and within this very moment that seeing can't otherwise than seeing. So therefore there is from nature only seeing. NOTHING ELSE than seeing. That's it. Everything else is makeup. I CAN ONLY see the truth, even when in the same time the "I" puts on (or wants to put on) make up - it still remains the true seeing. Seeing. Just seeing - no more and no less.

[Patrick]

Is there in seeing an inner and an outer?
Is there any split feeling ?

Even if there are ‘I’ thoughts, belong they to someone?

[Bruno]

It used to be a feeling of inner and outer seeing, but I realise now that this is a story of the "I". Seeing is inner and outer is one, there has never been two. Not possible. So there is still seeing through my thought patterns, but there is also seeing through those though patterns. So from there, there is sometimes still a split feeling. It's like seeing the untruth through seeing the truth, sort of like this. Don't if there are the right words. Belong the "I" thoughts to someone? Definitely less, I got less attached to "I" stories. The "I" has become ridiculous. A joke. But sometime I'm caught in the story and it's like the "I" talks and it's not possible to stop it. It's like an automatisme. Even I realized the "I" and the "I" thoughts are belongin to nobody, there are just happening. So maybe I don't have to stop them when they arise. It's just enough that they belong no more to a "me".

[Patrick]

So maybe I don't have to stop them when they arise.
What could stop these thoughts from arising?

Do you control choices? Do you take decisions?

Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

[Bruno]

I realised that nothing can stop those thoughts from arising. There is/was just this strong illusion, that I can control thoughts, but no, thoughts are coming and going. Then I think, oh I just think something else, but also this thought to think something else came in fact out of the blue. So as a fact, I realise I have never had any control of thoughts at all. Nothing could stop these thoughts from arising.

Do I control choices or do I take decisions? It seemed so strongly that I do/did this, yes. But now, I realise, it's not "me" taking decisions or controlling choices. There is no me, so how would it be possible. It's more and more the feeling and knowing, that life is taking decisions through me as a body/mind system or better through me as an energy bundle/being.

So therefore the body belongs to experience (when I understood this question right, it's a bit difficult, perhaps languagewise). That means there is (first) experience-'energy' manifestating through all the bodies in the world, as well plants, animals, buidlings. Experience IS, as well without all the 'I" or "Me" bodies. But through 'my' body "I" can have all the various experiences. Without body wouldn't this be possible in this (material) world, but without the "I" thought it's possible. Because it's no longer a difference to other thoughts. So for the experience itself it doen't matter if it is the "bruno-body" oder "patrick-body", just for the illusional self it is a matter, as long as it is not seen through as a lie or just a thought under billions of other thoughts.

[Patrick]

Could you confirm that you have seen through the illusion of the self?

Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?




Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.




[Bruno]

Confirming that there is a seeing-through happening 'trough me' but without any shape or form of a separate self. Seeing the lake now, realized that the lake is there, with or without the thought of 'me'. Just see the lake and being freed from the illusion, that the lake is not there when my illusional "I" doesn't want to see the lake. The lake doens't care about my stories at all. So life doesn't change its course because of my "I" stories. Seeing the lake is happening, and there is no difference in seeing the house or the tree - seeing is seeing. No more separate thing is seeing more or less of something, no more seperate thing is liking or disliking something. Well there is some thought maybe liking or disliking, but WHO cares? Nobody. End of story. End of illusion. Just pure truth seeing, no more stories attached, no more believing in stories possible, because each story with a "I" or "Me" is seen through as story/thought. Seeing through from whom? Nobody, no individual found. I can't find anyone beyond the stories.

The illusion of seperate self starts with the thought pattern of "I" or "Me" or "Us". The "I" thought gave me until now the impression that it's real, "I" just believed my own thinking stories. One thought chasing after another one. Stop and Go. But now seen the root thought, it cannot anymore work the same way.

Thinking now, that it can't be it - just now like this. But in the same moment realising it, just as a thought, that it can't be it. Seeing through now through the whole construction and functioning. Being calm now. No more excitation. It's a calm seeing through. It's like seeing through it already for the whole life. Something/somebody/nobody/the being energy already knew. Something familiar. But now revealed. Feeling deliberated and freed to see the truth.

[Patrick]

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.



What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?



Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.



Anything to add?

[Bruno]

I'm more in the present moment when doing something, i.e. when I'm preparing to cook something, I'm in the experience of washing the salad and the mushrooms. That means it's different from before and now, in meaning of it's about washing the salad, it's washing - that's it. It's no more about 'me' washing the salad. And there are thoughts and thinking but there is detachment now, living the detachment from the illusion. But it's not me on purpose to live it like this, it's happening. It happened. So that's the big difference from before this dialogue and now.

It was already at the beginning when you asked if there is someone needed to experience life with the senses, tasting and so on. And then by looking at nature, just more and more falling in to looking/seeing and no more giving importance to the label thinking. It's still going on the label thinking, but I feel detached. Once seen through the operating system of "I", it has no more leading function in 'my' life. It's like "I" have now 'my' natural foundation back. Standing on neutral grounds. Having blent with the seeing or doing whatever. No more "I" in between. Well there might be one, but it's no more interferring like before. Power off.
Over all it was a growing seeing process through your questions.

Do I decide events in life? Until now I planned and made happen a lot of things in 'my' life, fulfilled my dreams, like studying languages, doing theatre, going to Australia and so on. So until now "I" really thought, that was all me, my will, my persistence. But now it's a cracking point, because "my I" was so full of becoming this and doing this. In the last days/months it's still very actual, what I'm doing next and so on, but now, I realize that it's just the 'me' doing the plans. For example I didn't plan what to eat tonight, no idea. So I went to the shop this afternoon not for buying food but something for my sore throat. Then I saw potatoes especially for swiss raclette and I ended up to eat cheese raclette tonight. So if "I" had planned to eat spaghetti, I would have changed this idea, because lifeplan (not "I" plan) was offering me raclette. So I cannot, I never could make anything happen, just the "illusional I" thought, it could make all happen. I cannot make anything happen. I cannot. This is fact, because my "I" has no control about my heart still working in 5 seconds, no way of control... never had.

It's special now, because the "I" cannot put something to it or take from this process dialogue. It's like not possible to interfere here. Like it has no access or trying to put in other words, it's like just not here. Empty. Disappeared?! Don't know, more the feeling of never been here. This is somehow strange/special. I wanted to add this. Makes this sense?

[Patrick]

Thanks for your answers.
It seems strange/special because it’s new. Overtime it will become normal, not noticed anymore.
I’ll send you a PM with some information about the LU FB groups for sharing about this kind of questions.