Thanks for the article. Yes, it helped. And also reading the one called "View & Experience".
What I see is that I have indeed seen that there is no I. It is very simple and obvious and I have tested it now in several situations. It is stable. Awareness of existence / Life is here and it is very good.
What helped in reading the second article was to understand that this is one facet of the whole "awakening-thing". What I was doing was comparing my experience with what I have heard and read from others and this confused me. Now I see that they are speaking of other facets. Interestingly, I feel no urge to seek or strive for these other facets. There is a trust here that it will come if it does and who needs it anyway.
Yes, I see the chair. No, I do not see my self.
Thank you.
/E
What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Hi Ernest,
Seems we're done. Good work. I thoroughly enjoyed working with you, it went smooth and all by itself.
I have one last question, and then maybe a few “standard LU” questions to round off the process.
My last question: What does the “I” point to?
:-)
Seems we're done. Good work. I thoroughly enjoyed working with you, it went smooth and all by itself.
I have one last question, and then maybe a few “standard LU” questions to round off the process.
My last question: What does the “I” point to?
:-)
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Clever!
And wonderful to feel how obvious the answer is and how spontaneously it comes: Nothing!
It does seem to be done. I will appreciate the standard questions but thank you very much indeed, Lex. Amazing how this direct experiencing cuts right through the knot.
No need to show anything to the others any more though. A pity. I had been looking forward to that.
:-)
/E
And wonderful to feel how obvious the answer is and how spontaneously it comes: Nothing!
It does seem to be done. I will appreciate the standard questions but thank you very much indeed, Lex. Amazing how this direct experiencing cuts right through the knot.
No need to show anything to the others any more though. A pity. I had been looking forward to that.
:-)
/E
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Well, if you insist...
This is the current version of the “final questions”:
This is the current version of the “final questions”:
- Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
- Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works. Describe it fully as you see it now.
- How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
- How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
- What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
- Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works. Describe it fully as you see it now.
"The separate self" is a concept. It is a complex of beliefs that is constructed out of thoughts and habitually reinforced by oneself and society. I have never been to Africa and I have never seen my gall bladder. But I believe Africa exists and I belive there is a gall bladder inside my body. These are beliefs. The separate self is the same.
Interestingly I feel much resistance against speculating on where it comes from and why and how. It feels completely irrelevant - it is there because it is, and that is all. Who cares what explainations we can construct - they are all just beliefs.
Any explaination about how I adjusted to the shared ideas of the culture I was born into and how I identified with and began to take responsability for the doings of my body etc. simply feels phoney. There is no "I" who did this. There is just what took place, it is what it is - and utterly without importance today.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I experience an immense relief in letting go of all this believed responsability for processes which are just happening spontaneously. In the last few days I have felt an increasing calm around my activities, seeing that they are all just happening in accordance with the programming that life happens to have written into my body-mind dynamic. There is no doer of any of it, it is just taking place and so there is no need for judgements around it. It simply is what it is and cannot be in any other way. So the whole notion of "I should have done this differently" has fallen away, and that feels extremely liberating. This goes for others as well. Seeing that they are also doer-less and acting in accordance with the beliefs that have been written in their minds bring an enormous acceptance with it.
Today, working with a client, I noticed an unforseen consequence, though: It appears that I am losing interest in the whole psychology of the play of life. Why bother with it? Seeing clearly that "I" do not exist is the basic solution. The rest is just changing the illusion from one form to another and as such makes no difference. It will be interesting to see if this continues and where it will go.
How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Increasingly I think I would not. I was much more interested in describing it before I saw it for myself. Based on the experience of having been speculating over, reading about and discussing this for many years but not actually getting it until I experienced it directly, I now believe that there is no way of really grasping this intellectually. So if I sensed in somebody a sincere desire to know this, I would try to let him or her experience it through questions and direct pointing rather than trying to explain it intellectually.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The question about what happened to the "I am" state when I turned attention to dynamic activities helped me see that the final point wasn't "I am" (in the sense I experienced it then) but that which experienced this state. This was what suddenly made me realize the experiencing that was taking place while all the other states were coming and going.
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
I do not. There is no "I" and there is no free will or choice. Life just plays out the way it does. The way it is "written" as they say.
Thank you again, Lex. I have no words to express it, really. It is wonderful! Thank you.
No.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works. Describe it fully as you see it now.
"The separate self" is a concept. It is a complex of beliefs that is constructed out of thoughts and habitually reinforced by oneself and society. I have never been to Africa and I have never seen my gall bladder. But I believe Africa exists and I belive there is a gall bladder inside my body. These are beliefs. The separate self is the same.
Interestingly I feel much resistance against speculating on where it comes from and why and how. It feels completely irrelevant - it is there because it is, and that is all. Who cares what explainations we can construct - they are all just beliefs.
Any explaination about how I adjusted to the shared ideas of the culture I was born into and how I identified with and began to take responsability for the doings of my body etc. simply feels phoney. There is no "I" who did this. There is just what took place, it is what it is - and utterly without importance today.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I experience an immense relief in letting go of all this believed responsability for processes which are just happening spontaneously. In the last few days I have felt an increasing calm around my activities, seeing that they are all just happening in accordance with the programming that life happens to have written into my body-mind dynamic. There is no doer of any of it, it is just taking place and so there is no need for judgements around it. It simply is what it is and cannot be in any other way. So the whole notion of "I should have done this differently" has fallen away, and that feels extremely liberating. This goes for others as well. Seeing that they are also doer-less and acting in accordance with the beliefs that have been written in their minds bring an enormous acceptance with it.
Today, working with a client, I noticed an unforseen consequence, though: It appears that I am losing interest in the whole psychology of the play of life. Why bother with it? Seeing clearly that "I" do not exist is the basic solution. The rest is just changing the illusion from one form to another and as such makes no difference. It will be interesting to see if this continues and where it will go.
How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Increasingly I think I would not. I was much more interested in describing it before I saw it for myself. Based on the experience of having been speculating over, reading about and discussing this for many years but not actually getting it until I experienced it directly, I now believe that there is no way of really grasping this intellectually. So if I sensed in somebody a sincere desire to know this, I would try to let him or her experience it through questions and direct pointing rather than trying to explain it intellectually.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The question about what happened to the "I am" state when I turned attention to dynamic activities helped me see that the final point wasn't "I am" (in the sense I experienced it then) but that which experienced this state. This was what suddenly made me realize the experiencing that was taking place while all the other states were coming and going.
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
I do not. There is no "I" and there is no free will or choice. Life just plays out the way it does. The way it is "written" as they say.
Thank you again, Lex. I have no words to express it, really. It is wonderful! Thank you.
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Gratitude filling all of experience here too.
No-one liberated, but liberation happens and consequently gratitude is felt.
I'll check with other guides if they have any questions.
Love
No-one liberated, but liberation happens and consequently gratitude is felt.
I'll check with other guides if they have any questions.
Love
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Hi Ernest,
This passage raised a question with one of the guides:
This passage raised a question with one of the guides:
Do you still believe in a separate self?But I believe Africa exists and I belive there is a gall bladder inside my body. These are beliefs. The separate self is the same.
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
No, I do not. It was part of my attempt to explain how the illusion of the separate self works. I still believe in Africa, though :-).
Thanks for connecting on facebook!
E
Thanks for connecting on facebook!
E
Re: What does the "I" point to? Please guide me!
Rereading my post I see why it could seem that way to the guide so let me clarify further: Before this process I believed in a separate self (despite having read plenty about its illusory nature) the same way I believed in Africa. Now I clearly see that there is not and has never been a separate self. I have no experience of any seperate self going on - direct experiencing seems to have deleted the entire concept completely from the set of beliefs that constitute my world - unlike the concept of Africa which is still there. And let me add that the use of "me", "my" and "I" in these posts are for convenience as you suggested at one point. It is simply not worth the effort to construct sentences without them, but they do not refer to anything beyond the practical.
I hope this is clear.
/E
I hope this is clear.
/E
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 226 guests