i think i am ready

[kvotski]

The dream of my parents: The "I" thought is troublesome and distracting. Without it, the difficult situations that life brings can be handled better. When I reflect on a bad experience I can always see a better outcome when the "I" thought is removed.

It seems that I have established how unnecessary and destructive the I thought is. As for its existence, there is not yet 100% certainty about this but it seems like that is where this is all going. Last night, while looking in the mirror I almost cried because it felt like I was saying goodbye to an old friend.

Good stuff, Greg. There is no one to see the better outcome of a bad experience either. It is a play that has gone on and will go on but you realise it is all in thoughts. The body unnecessarily reacts to it as if it is a real tiger coming at you.

Let us take it to certainty then. Just like the mirror, look at your hands doing dishes or typing here. Why is this your hand? Or is it just a pair of hands? Lift it, look at it, what do you see?

The old friend will never leave you, he was never there. Thoughts created it just like the recent movie you saw that hangs around or a book where you are Yossarian doing sorties (Catch 22).

I also want you to do look at the way you make decisions? Take two objects or two actions like tea or coffee or pop, red vs blue pen. Or anything you like. Tell me what happens and how you arrive at a choice point?

It is indeed a pleasure working with you. Report everything you feel during and after.

[want2bhumble]

A few thoughts have come to mind about this process. It reminds me of times in the past where I gave up a bad habit like TV and bad words. That is what it feels like. It's a good feeling.

OK. Now for your question. As these thumbs hover over a smartphone and press letters to assemble a coherent sentence, my mind is considering what the implications are. The answer is that the human mind and body is extraordinarily complex. With all of it's interconnected parts, it is amazing that the body works at all. The body is complex enough to generate a consciousness, an attention span, and thoughts. However complexity does not imply ownership. There is no I that can claim all of these processes as his to protect, advance, or be ashamed of.

Something interesting happened today on the road. I was driving slow and another driver passed me by with a very vulgar insult. Instead of the usual pattern of "I should have said this" or "I should have done that," there was just the feeling.

The body felt mildly threatened for a couple minutes and then it was calm again. Is this direct experience? It is as if the I makes a bad situation worse. Without the I thought pattern, a difficult situation is more clear.

[kvotski]

A few thoughts have come to mind about this process. It reminds me of times in the past where I gave up a bad habit like TV and bad words. That is what it feels like. It's a good feeling.

OK. Now for your question. As these thumbs hover over a smartphone and press letters to assemble a coherent sentence, my mind is considering what the implications are. The answer is that the human mind and body is extraordinarily complex. With all of it's interconnected parts, it is amazing that the body works at all. The body is complex enough to generate a consciousness, an attention span, and thoughts. However complexity does not imply ownership. There is no I that can claim all of these processes as his to protect, advance, or be ashamed of.

Something interesting happened today on the road. I was driving slow and another driver passed me by with a very vulgar insult. Instead of the usual pattern of "I should have said this" or "I should have done that," there was just the feeling.

The body felt mildly threatened for a couple minutes and then it was calm again. Is this direct experience? It is as if the I makes a bad situation worse. Without the I thought pattern, a difficult situation is more clear.

And like giving up smoking, here for me.

Greg, I think you are ready for the questions. These are to establish beyond doubt that you realize there is no you, never was and will not come back except in brief flashes which you will catch just like the idea of an unicorn in your living room.

Before I ask the question, please go back through our conversation here right from day one and bring up items that may still be gnawing you. What do you feel about your expectations from this process? Is a no Greg enough to handle what will come in life? Is there a need to do further seeking? If yes, to find what? Give it your thorough look...

Very happy for you.

[want2bhumble]

Sunil,
After looking over our dialogue, and much reflection, it does seem that a change has taken place . There is no I other than the one that is conjured by thoughts.

And those thoughts do not amount to anything at all important. The massive swirl of I" Thoughts" are not the soul. They sometimes rush in after an encounter with another person. They sometimes lead to other thoughts or actions, But they are just thoughts. They just are and there is no self to be found.

Let's say that my brain took severe physical trauma and I couldn't think anymore. It's rediculous to say "my I has been taken from me." That's not what happened. The brain just changed. If there is a soul, then it can't be destroyed and nobody owns it.

This body is just here doing it's thing. I should have known this long ago. That Santa analogy is perfect.

My concerns: what can I expect in terms of distractions and old self centered thinking popping back up from time to time?

[kvotski]

.

Another problem involves the slavery of addiction. I have a couple of compulsive behaviors and my ego is convinced that I would be incomplete if I do not indulge. Once I do have a slip, then a wave of guilt comes rushing in.

Is there a me who has lost his job? Is there a Greg who has been sometimes the victim and sometimes the attacker? I am about 50/50 on this. When I bring my full thought to bear on the idea then there is no self and it feels beautiful. It feels like "divine relief."

Once I start coasting, then the illusion returns. Why am "I" failing? Why did she hurt "MY" feelings? Is "MY " career .

Greg

Hello Greg,

So I went back to your first note.

Please answer your own questions now.

Is there a Greg who would or wouldn't be complete without the addiction?

Is there 50% Greg who is victim or attacker?

Is there a Greg who was abandoned?

Painful but must be faced. That is surrender.

Best wishes.

[want2bhumble]

Is there a Greg who would or wouldn't be complete without the addiction?
What a great question. This is what I used to think until recently...that Greg just needs to fill this missing link ( cure the addiction) and somehow greatness will be achieved.

The answer to this question is no. My bad habits now feel more like an anomaly taking place within a very complex living machine. Since I started this process, there has been very little temptation and no slipping.

Let's say that I see some greasy food that makes the mouth water, or an attractive woman who captures the imagination, or a cigarette that initiates a craving. There is no Greg doing spiritual battle with these thing. There is only a series of complex thoughts and feelings. I can almost feel them and they are so much more manageable now that the body is allowed to correct itself without any mental delusions getting in the way.

Is there 50% Greg who is victim or attacker?
No. It is such a relief. Let me explain. Let's say that I learn a new strategy for dealing with painful memories and trauma. Maintaining this new system takes work and it is burdensome. What I have learned here is not work, it is a letting go and things seem actually easier. There is no Greg to be hurt.

To be sure, the body still experiences strain and adversity. But when attention is diverted away from the Me thought and towards what is actually happening in the body, it is clear how much distortion and exaggeration has taken place over the years.

Is there a Greg who was abandoned?
No. I think back on all the times I withdrew into a depression. The thinking went, "I am all alone in this. Why is this happening to me? I just want her to leave me alone." Now all of this seems like a distorted defense mechanism that prevents real healing.

One analogy that comes to mind is chess. Chess players, like myself, tend to think that it is more than just a game because there is no small amount of beauty to the moves and combinations. However, it is just a very complex game. Human being are even more complex. It is incomprehensible how interdependent and complicated our body is. So it is tempting to think of it as more than a body. This awareness that is always here, now, is just another phenomenon.

[kvotski]

Hi Greg,

Good job with the answers. Since I am running out of doubts about having seen that there is no gate, I would our process at LU to take over. Which is a series of questions, we would like you to answer and have our little group look it over to make sure what I see, they see also.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?

Please take your time.

It has been awesome working with you. Thanks.

[want2bhumble]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not. That is when a type of freedom is felt. When I ponder about how there never was an I and there never will be. Anxieties have been melting away. It hasn't been without effort, but it feels too good to be true. It feels like cheating. The mind is tempted to say, "Wait a minute. Aren't I supposed to suffer. Now the pain gets taken away just because this is a body and not an I that suffers! There must be a catch! Is the suffering going to come back with a vengeance along with the I thought? "

No it isn't. A truth has been seen. I is just swirling thoughts automatically filling the consciousness for whatever reason. Now, being perfectly honest, this bliss does not come whenever I want it. Sometimes it seems like a reminder is necessary: for example, "Remember that there is no I". But there are very few doubts.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

A vortex of thoughts is the only analogy that comes to mind that describes how this brain is so delusional. They come in when there is manual labor as if trying to distract me (e.g."Am I doing this right" "Is anybody watching me" "Do I look good?" "I can't wait to eat")

They come up after an encounter with another person (e.g. "She was pretty. Why did she say that to me? Did I seem too over-the-top with my comments")

When there is a painful memory ("my father told me that I am weird. How could he say that to his son who was still school aged. He did that at the dinner table. Was he embarrassed in me?")

And so forth.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Allow me to relate a story of something that happened yesterday. I will try to be brief. I was driving a taxi yesterday. The last fare of the night was a young couple, aged thirty or so, good-looking, and very drunk. The loud voices and cursing was a trial to bear but it was not directed at me...at first.

As I began driving them to their destination (we never made it to their destination) she would occasionally yell directions at me. They got louder and louder. When the GPS told me to do something opposite of what she told me, I followed the GPS. She screamed at me.

I stopped the car and said, "I don't like the way you are talking to me." There was anger building up, but very little
thinking. The anger was a tension in the jaw, a tightening of the chest, and a rush of blood. The vortex was not there yet, but I knew it was coming. The anger was under control and I was doing the reminder silently, "Remember, there is no I". It was a cab driver who felt that enough was enough.

The passengers were defensive. The driver asked for an apology from the lady. The boyfriend felt that her honor was being threatened. The driver said that he does not have to take abuse.

"Remember, there is no I."

The passengers would not get out of the car. The driver gave second chances. The passengers insulted the driver. The driver got the police involved, the young couple was taken off his hands and the driver drove away safely.

That is when the thoughts rushed in and I tell you I could almost feel them these days. I allowed the mind to run
with these for a few minutes and knew that the next step would be resentments and fear.

Then the reminder, "Remember, there is no I." There is no I to be resentful, afraid, or embarrassed. That feels sweet. It goes both ways though. There is also no I to feel victorious over the young couple. There is no I to be proud, glorious, or vain. That feels sweet too.

This is what happened! There was no suffering! It is a miracle because this has never happened before, not in recent memory at least. And the thoughts do return now and again, but they are observed rather than felt...for the most part.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Sitting in the quiet of my home, and reflecting on the readings, on the teachings of my guide, Sunil, and looking for truth while trying to not "route" for the answer I want.

I did some questioning using words and logic. I asked, "Is the I necessary?" Then I asked, "Does it exist?" I came up with "no" to both questions. And thought about it further and came up with deeper and more heartfelt, "no's" then before.

***Oh boy, it seems like I am going on a real spiritual ramble here. Is there a word for that? Its ok. I am not afraid of
being made fun of. That is a surrender that is happening now. There is no "I" to feel anxiety about what people are going to think about my writings.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No. All of these things do seem to happen but "I" does not do it. All "I" does is distract. There is deciding, intending,and so forth. But "I" am not doing it. This brain is doing all of it. The brain stem is where much of this stuff occurs, or so I have heard. But although it is not my awareness, it is a nice awareness. It is one that will be savored and enjoyed.

One more example? Hmmm. Let's see here...OK, here is one. Today was Easter Sunday. The whole extended family gets together for one giant gossip-fest. And its usually loud...really loud. It is hard not to get caught up in the gossip as it so shamefully entertaining.

This time though, it was different. A decision was made to play it cool in front of relatives. An intention was made to not say anything that would later be regretted. Events were chosen and controlled by a body that knows how to regulate itself. I didn't do it. There is no I.

And the party was so much more enjoyable than in years past now that it was enjoyed by my Post-I mind.

6) Anything to add?

It seems fitting now that the words I, you, me, they, etc. are now going to be just a convenience, a communication tool.The thoughts are still out there, with me constantly like a familiar companion. They are not taken seriously. They are not I. There is no I.


thank sunil. Can we keep talking in some fashion?

[kvotski]

Hi Greg,

Of course we can keep talking as much as you like. The process is not over yet as I have to get three other guides to confirm what I feel is your liberation. But before that I have some questions based on your answers here.

you said " Sitting in the quiet of my home, and reflecting on the readings,..."

What were you reading? Did the readings influence your thoughts and conclusions here or have you directly experienced the absence of I, me or self?

You said , "All of these things do seem to happen but "I" does not do it. All "I" does is distract."

Is it your experience that "I" is acting or not acting here or is it that "I' simply doesn't exist. there is a subtle but very significant difference. The self is a very clever thought and it will morph into many names. So lets be very clear.

You also say "The thoughts are still out there, with me constantly like a familiar companion. "

Is the "me" still with you as a companion? or isn't here, was never here, just an imagination or delusion as you earlier pointed out.

Greg, I want to be thorough so that your life would flow as it has in the taxi incident and at your home. You have to convince me that there is no you. Only then your script will become automatic, no effort needed to remember...

Good wishes always.

[want2bhumble]

No problem. There is no impatience here, only gratitude. We can use as much time as needed. You have been very generous with your time.

I will let the people who are wiser and far more enlightened than myself to decide for themselves. No matter where I am in this unfolding, I can confidently say that things have gotten so much better for me.

Many of the spiritual lessons that I have been taught in years past are becoming more clear. However I have not looked at them during this process. The only reading I have done is from enlightening quotes, gateless gatecrasher, and the website.

There was, and still is a nagging temptation to pick up some of my favorite texts now that this paradigm shift has occurred. However, I have followed instructions obediently.

The readings were like a roadmap for me, and a great motivator. So were the questions that you posed to me. However, it wasn't until I sat in silent contemplation where I experienced an absence of I/me/self.

The readings and writings immersed me in the idea. But only the actual soul searching opened things up.

The actual line of thought that helped the most is when "awareness" was considered. It is easy to see that the heart and lungs regulate themselves But is it conceivable that awareness is not me? Awareness is something that had to be looked at further because it is so persistent and present.

When I considered that awareness, conscience, and higher order thinking are just as mechanical as the heart, then a peaceful understanding came to me.

I looked at both arguments equally. The internal monologue went like this, "alright Greg, I have held on to you for a very long time so I will give you a chance to prove that you exist." The mind came up with nothing and there is no longer any talking to "Greg".

It doesn't feel like belief. Belief seems to take work and maintenance. This is like looking for something and then seeing the truth that should have been obvious long ago. It has been directly experienced.

As for the last question, the I does not exist. Being rigorously honest, I would have to admit that the thoughts that automatically flooded the mind a few weeks ago are about the same as the ones that do now. Years of habit.

They occurred today when I started a new job (not driving a taxi anymore). They were, "will they like me," "am I working hard enough."

The difference is that almost immediately they are followed with, "But there is no me for anybody to like." Then attention went to the direct bodily feelings of anxiety and then they passed away.

I look forward to hearing from you on this, Sunil. If these thoughts suggest that there is more work to do then I am very happy to do that work. I feel like I am making progress and this is kind of fun.

[kvotski]

Hi Greg,

I am we'll satisfied with the rigor you have used here. I will present your file to my mentors and will get back to you soon. Any thing comes up don't hesitate to post.

Best in your new job.

[want2bhumble]

Hey Sunil. I got your email...it made my day.

The new job seems to be going well, and with this new perspective, all of the stress from this big change is fleeting and manageable.

I look forward to hearing from the admin about what the next step is.

How long has it been for you since you made your own discovery here?

-Greg

[kvotski]

I have been at for some years Greg but the light bulb went off about six months ago here.

Welcome.